I find your remarks offensive - you are tarring every breeder with the same brush. I and many others like me insist on purchasers signing an agreement that pup will be returned to me if they can no longer keep it. This is valid for the entire life of the animal and I would certainly never breed if I wasn't in a position to have anything back, no matter what age/condition/issue, nor would I breed if I didn't have a waiting list for my pups and/or wanted one for myself. I breed English Setters and have bred two litters in the 20 plus years that I have owned Setters. I have a waiting list of people that don't mind how long they have to wait for one of my pups, because they know that I only breed from stock that has had all relevant health checks. We are fortunate as a breed that we have a waiting list for people after rescue dogs, they don't become available very often because breeders abide by the code of ethics and ensure that unwanted dogs are returned to us in need. I also keep in touch with every person that has a pup from me, I am at the end of the phone/email day and night for them. I am not alone in providing this service and encourage new owners to use it. Do you honestly think that because these people have purchased a pup from me, one more rescue dog has been unplaced? I think not, people that have one of my pups have researched fully into the breed, I check them out in that respect, they also have to meet me and my adult dogs before the pups are born. They have chosen an English Setter because it fits in with their lifestyle and/or is renowned to be extremely friendly and kind to children. They simply cannot be positive that the dog they rescue will have the traits they are looking for.
I don't disagree that rescue centres are full of unwanted dogs and I, like others on this forum, have had my share of rescue animals over the years, I will continue to do so. However, I don't think that you should bully people into being afraid to admit that they are purchasing a pup from a breeder rather than getting a rescue. It is a free world after all.

As a family we have always had rescue dogs and as I said previously I tried the rescue route first and was to be honest very suprised and put off by the attitude of the one member of staff I had to deal with and before she got involved the home were going to home the pup with me, I was deverstated and kept fighting for the fella until I was told he had been rehomed (which he wasnt or at least wasnt for more then a week!) I couldnt at the time go through the experience again and decided to buy a puppy, this does not make me a bad person and totally agree with you Nicci on the offensiveness of this comment!!!

I think you are going to upset alot of people with your small minded views, my breeder was very strict on the homes she sent her pups too, took all pups back if necessary no mater what the age and personally paid for and run a number of kennels on her property for rescue dogs from the proceeds of her breeding and I am certain she would be very offended by your comments and implication she is not a dog lover if she breeds!!!

If people want pedigree dogs so they can be certain of the temperament this has to be beter then them getting the wrong dog from a rescue and returning it, causing it more problems in the long run! People who buy perigree pups are usually on a waiting list for the right breeder so have lots of time to research the breed and are commited to the pup having waited so long in the first place yet Ive know lots of people getting rescue dogs on impulse after visiting a rescue with someone else falling for some cute dog and deciding to have it, yes they will be home checked (although some of the rescue homes disregard for home checks has astounded me!!!) but that person may know nothing of the breed or breeds of the dog or the characteristics and its suitability in their home just thought it was cute and had to have it!!!!!

There are two sides to every story but you seem incapable of seeing the other side, yes theres lots of dogs in rescues looking for homes and yes if we can help out a rescue dog many of us would but its not always possible, if we could shut down puppy farming and ensure only responsible breeders who took all pups back no mater what the age of the dog or problems it may have were allowed to breed then we would go a long way to preventing so many dogs ending up in rescues in the first place, prevention being beter then cure but responsible breeders are not the villans here!!!!!

Only because I see first hand the dogs that are destroyed for no other reason than lack of homes.
A few people seem to think rescue dogs are an alien breed with lots of problems, this is completely untrue like I said the majority of these dogs have come from breeders that consider themselves to be good breeders. Only a small number of dogs in rescue have been abused and have issues the rest are no different than the pups you purchase from a breeder.
To me it's simple until dogs stop being killed through lack of homes, anyone who brings more dogs into this already over populated world is only adding to the problem.

The majority of people responsible owners who buy pups from responsible breeders would not get a rescue dog regardless of whether pedigree pups are not available so it would not solve the problem, people that show would not get a rescue instead, neither neccesarily would people that work their dogs and need a specific dog for a specific job!
I agree that the fact more dogs are bred then their is demand for is the main reason that we have such a problem with too many rescue dogs and not enough homes but surely stopping puppy farmers who churn out loads of pups on a monthly basis with no interest in the dogs well being just the £ signs in front of their eyes would go a long way to solving this problem as I said if only reputable breeders who would not allow their pups to be rehomed by anyone but themselves should the need arise were able to breed eventually there would be no need for rescue centers or for dogs to be put down because they cant be found homes!
As for the good breeders who's dogs are in your rescues they are not good breeders and should not be allowed to breed if they arew not going to take responisbility for the pups they have bred!!!!!

I actually sort of agree with you. It is absurd of course that there are so many dogs begging for homes, and yet still we bring more dogs into the world. But no one side is to blame for that.

You could argue that breeders should look at the issue and stop breeding. Aside from being a nonsense solution, it just doesn't work on a practical level. There are damned good breeders and damned poor breeders. I've encountered the latter in my early dog-owning days. However, the information is out there to be found, on how to spot the good and bad. People just don't always read it or seek it out, as indeed I didn't at the time. (Though the web wasn't as enriched in those days.)

To punctuate the point, after it had been realised that I had purchased a Great Dane from a disreputable breeder, by a leading figure in the British Great Dane field, (I don't recall the exact name.) she was even willing to GIVE me one of her own litter, so that I didn't go away with a bad feeling about Great Danes in general.

My point being there are some exceptional breeders out there who really couldn't give two hoots about the money side of things. Sometimes, they just want to help better promote the breed, and make their mark on it.

I can't help thinking that your venom may be a little misdirected on this particular issue.

Breeders aren't the issue; people are.

That is a pretty simplistic view though and in an ideal world all dogs would have homes. However, where do dogs bred to work - ie sheepdogs, gundogs, police dogs, guide dogs etc, come into your way of thinking?

Well there will always be a few people who think odd things but I don't think it's relevant what these supposed breeders consider themselves to be. After all, very few would admit to being anything other than good.

However, if they really are responsible breeders, they would have provisions in place to cater for dogs of their breeding that need rehoming. It could be that sometimes a breeder is unaware of the situation and I'm not sure if the policy of all breed rescues is to inform the breeder when possible. Is this the case?

That's worrying but interesting. Where are these stats from Allbreeds? Could you give references please.

I find this hard to believe if they were good breeders then they would take their dogs back ... just because they "consdier themselves" to be good breeders doesn't mean they are !!!

I thoiught I was a good singer until I joined a choir

In answer to this - firstly there are pedigree dogs in rescue already - thats why there are so many breed specific rescues and they will be temperament assessed within homes with kids, cats etc. Also you seem to be implying that rescues will just let any dog go to anybody without sort of insight into the dogs requirements, again not true just as there may be reputable breeders there are also very good rescues who ensure that the wrong dog will not go to the wrong people.

Again you seem to be implying that people who go through rescue havent put any thought into having a dog and just want one because its cute! Sorry but I dont think thats the case most people wanting a rescue will have thought long and hard just as anyone hopefully wanting a dog from a breeder. Again most rescues will not allow you to have a dog without some sort of home check and ensuring you know as much about the dog and their requirements as any breeder! Im sure your breeder would also be offended that you assume she lets any of her rescue dogs go to people because they think they're cute.

See I find it offensive when people assume all rescue dogs will have problems, bad temperatments and cant be trusted. I find it unbelievable that people think there are no pedigree dogs in rescue, Ive got 2! (however in my breed there are specific problems but thats another arguement). I also find it upsetting when people imply that you can turn up to any rescue and pick up a dog regardless without there being any checks or thought going into it.

Rescues have a hard enough time caring and saving dogs without this sort of misinformation being spread, there are thousands of very very dedicated people out there trying so damn hard to get these dogs into perfect homes for little or no thanks.

Sorry but this is completely untrue