im not a fan of dog shows.

To me (on the outside) it looks like "my dog looks better than yours. " but thats minor.

I have an issue with breeding for showing. I know its people hobbies but i just dont see it a great reason for a litter.

I have nothing against dog shows as such, and have enjoyed "showing" our rescue dogs at local fun shows on occasion. I see no harm in it if the dog enjoys the experience.

What I DO object to, most strongly, is what it perpetuates - i.e. the so called Breed Standard as laid down by the supposed experts in the Kennel Club. Compare the original Boxer for example to the modern day model of perfection........the former had a nice long nose and no breathing or eye problems, which cannot be said for the latter. The King Charles with the now tiny skull that cannot encompass the brain; the appalling health of the actual winner of Crufts a couple of years ago, a Pekinese that could barely breathe; the list is endless and all this because somebody decides that the dog looks better with this or that attribute.

I applauded the BBC for refusing to televise Crufts anymore and until the Kennel Club take a more sensible approach to breed standards then I will not watch "proper" dog shows. It's a shame because the majority of dog lovers would never breed to the detriment of their dogs, and as the previous posts show the welfare of their animals is paramount.

For me at the moment, agility classes and heelwork to music are what good showing is all about - not much sign of hereditary problems from selective breeding there.

Hi,

i've read the first page and this page and, because I simply cannot help myself, feel I need to reply....

Firstly, I''ve never been to a show, and so I know nothing about what goes on behind the scenes... however I do always watch Cruft's on TV.... the only stories I know from the show-scene are my grandmother's who used to show her dogs all over Europe and the UK, which ended when two of her dogs were poisoned during a show... but that was very very long ago... i hope none of that happens anymore...

The way I see it is this: when watching Cruft's it is not very hard to see which owners are there because the dogs enjoy it, and which dogs are there because only the owners like it... and I really hope the judges pick up on that and use it when scoring a dog!

The problem I have with the show thing (and this includes any and all other show-like activities such as agility, obedience, flyball etc, I have a BC so that's a big thing for us) is what happens after a bitch has won important awards... I've noticed that then they suddenly become a breeding-machine for some breeders... I've had personal experience with this as someone I know very well just bought a puppy from this kind of breeder (very well known, very good reputation, full paperwork, etc etc) but when I asked about the mother-dog the answer I got was "well, she didn't look very well but then again she's had loads of litters over the past few years" I felt quite sick... poor little dog! And you will not believe the price asked for her puppies.....

So basically my thoughts are.... showing is a great hobby, and can be loads of fun for both the dog as the owner.... but if I ever get a dog from a show-line, I'm going to do extra homework regarding whether the bitch has become a breeding-machine or not...

I have to say , I am not really sure you aren`t just saying these things to get a rise... have you really any idea what you are talking about...because it really does not sound like it.

In the many many yrs of being involved in horses, in all disciplines, I have never seen the friction you seem to be talking about..in fact MOST of the people I have met and known over the yrs of being involved in competition , you will find people have respect for each others disciplines.

We had a working hunter, that competed at HOYS , he also hunted, show jumped , invented and did dressage.... if we just trotted him up and down, I am sure the judge would overlook him as along with looking good a horse a horse has to carry muscle /condition in all the right places, and you dont get that unless you work it.








You are joking right, are the dogs used in these disciplines super genetically modified , is that how you pick a heel work to music/agility dog... or do you use Collies , rescue dogs, mixed breeds, along with many other breeds of dog, doge belonging to owners who just want to have soem fun with their pets....

Can I just ask you , how a KC registered bitch (was it registered) can have "loads" of litters over a "few" yrs...loads implies to me 6,7,8 apart from not being able to register them, she would have to have had a litter every season for at least 4 yrs..

But I agree , there are some very ruthless breeders in the show world, just like any other type of doggy world... it does not mean all are like that though.

I have to ask , why would someone stick somehting up a dogs backside

this was in Denmark but I do have a similar story form Germany.....and yes, from the info I have she was having a litter after every season.... and I totally agree that they are not all like that at all!

However, whenever I see a post stating "make sure you get a puppy from a reputable breeder" I still make my own mental note "but keep your eyes and ears open at all times".... not every so-called reputable breeder is a dog-friendly breeder...

No offense meant to any and all good breeders out there!!!!!

I have been to dog shows a few times - mainly when I lived in inner London it was Crufts every year when it was still held there. I also went to a Breed Club show held in London with a friend, who owned & occasionally exhibited her Chihuahuas.

I even once judged a couple of novelty classes at a very tiny charity dog show run by some friends (Which was where I met my first Belgian Shepherds - Tervs - and the rest is history, having been hooked on the breed ever since - 23 years and still counting).

I've also shown Merlin at some companion shows and we have some pretty RSPCA rosettes hanging on the wall, a red, a blue and a yellow.

But I had never really been to a dog show of any kind, all day, and seen it from the exhibitors point of view until last weekend, when some breeders of my favourite breed invited me to come & meet them, which I did.

It was an Open show, so not as competitive as perhaps the Champs are but I have to say I had a lovely day out. Out of the roughly 180 dogs there I saw none really stressed or badly treated or handled. The people were refreshingly 'normal' and friendly - and by 'normal' I mean not too different from myself, and most as scruffily dressed as I was.... dog people are dog people whatever they are involved in. I used to show cats and I have to say, there wasn't quite the same level there - perhaps because most cat shows are Champ level?

I was there for almost the whole day and I really did enjoy it, watching the judging, seeing how it was all organised, right through to BIS and the stakes classes and misc classes afterwards. My new friends gave me a catalogue and I enjoyed looking through it at the dogs' names, breeders etc - all stuff I am used to from cat shows.

I met some fantastic and lovely affectionate dogs, and as the owner of a reactive dog who doesn't like his own species (we are working on that!), how lovely to see almost 200 dogs passing each other by without so much as a sideways glance.

Perhaps it does get different at a higher level, but many people who can't get to the big Champ shows can still get to the top by winning at these smaller shows - I like that... I really do. There is no such equivalent in any other animal shows I have been part of before.

If I had a suitable dog, even though I will never breed, and as long as my dog enjoyed it, I would be very happy to do a few Open shows... it would have to be a few as I don't drive!! I like the fact that you don't have to be that committed to showing to still do well, casually, and still have a good day out.

Yes I agree, totaly the changes for the worse that go on over the years - when the standard is supposed to keep the dogs uniform and 'pure' (arguments people have used in the past)

I also dislike breeding for looks over working ability
Form follows function, if the dogs are bred for generations to do the job they are supposed to do then people dont have to wet their pants about an angle of a stifle or something

I know of quite a few amazing working collies, they can do the job they were bred for all day long, but they wouldnt stand a chance at shows because they are smooth coated, prick eared, tri coloured, odd eyed, leggy
They wouldnt trot nicely around the ring - but they can do the job they are supposed to (and I think they are stunning)

To repeate
I have nothing against an individual showing their dogs as a fun hobby, I have problems with the few and I have problems with what it does to the breeds in the long term

I have to ask , why would someone stick somehting up a dogs backside

I think Akitagirl went on to say that it was because the dog was on heat. I thought it was against the showing rules to exhibit a dog on heat???? So perhaps it was done to disguise the evidence. Can someone confirm this or not?

I agree with with Ben McFuzzylugs posts on this thread and one or two others who have reservations about motives etc. of some of the breeders and people showing.

I have been to Crufts a few times and feel that it must be one of the best marketing events around and there is no doubt is an important showcase for the breeders and merchandisers. Like with most competitive events I believe it brings out the best and the worst in people. I have seen both the generous experts who are devoted to their breed and the obnoxious individuals there. I am inclined to think that folks (and dogs) probably have more fun at the smaller shows.

I think this thread may go on for some time, so I will watch the posts with interest