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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,723
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05-06-2009, 08:22 AM
Originally Posted by Gnasher 
Ben : would not consider it cowardly then of Cesar to allow Daddy to die from a rattlesnake bite, which I understand is excruciatingly painful apart from anything else, because of your fear to get an expert to show you how to use an e-collar? Sorry, I know they are hateful things, but ask Will Smith's wife what she wishes she had done when her Rocco was killed by a rattlesnake.
I'll have to PM you about Mia running off, into the sunset, because it is going off thread and I've been warned.
i didnt say not to train the dog
if snakes were a danger and you were able to get hold of one for e collar training then you are able to spend the time to train an alternative behaviour
it is the manner of shocking from afar that i find cowerdly, i dont train with punishments at all but if i did i wouldnt hide behind a remote control
i too was wondering how many snake bites are a result of the dog going for the snake and how many did the dog just not see the snake?
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Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
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05-06-2009, 08:22 AM
Originally Posted by Heldengebroed
In regions with snakes using an e-collar is an excellent way to train your dog to avoid snakes. The way to do this isn't the normal way an e-collar is used. In this case the dog is deliberately brought in contact with a snake and the moment he comes awear of the presence of the snake ( You have to be a trainer to spot the right moment) you give a high stimulus. The reason for this is that the dog WILL associate the presence of the snake with pain and avoids it to all costs. I prefer to hurt the dog once and have a living dog over not hurting my dog and ending up with a death dog.
And in snake country the snakes also live in proximaty of humans. In fact several snakes search out humans... or te be more correct the pests that follow civilization ( eg rats...)
This is not the normal way an e-collar is used. Normaly the stimilus is set at such a level that it just "overrides" his drives
Greetings
Johan
It would be interesting to see the statistics of the amount of dogs saved by the e.collar regarding snake aversion.
To the amount that blindly stepped in the path of said snake.
Lets take humans for example, we know the danger of snake bites, we dont need to be zapped to teach up to leave them alone.
Yet how many snake/rattler bites are recorded each yr...on humans.
Point being as MissE said..... YOU DONT SEE THEM..and when you do it is proberbly to late.
A dog like a human can accidentally step into the lions den so to speak..
All the e.collar training will not stop them being bitten
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Location: Nr Edinburgh
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,350
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05-06-2009, 08:31 AM
Originally Posted by Gnasher
Yes, this is true Shona about many owners of sibes and mals, but I personally think it IS possible to let them off lead in wide open spaces. It is a question of having the confidence in the first place, when they are very young, to do so. Louise has already told me she just wouldn't want to take the risk. My opinion is that it is a risk worth taking, and with my mixes of those breeds, I have done so, with great success. I have spoken to several other pure husky and mal owners, some who do let them off, some who don't, but all the ones who do say the same thing - their recall is poor, very poor, but they do not gallop off into the sunset as is thought. They just do not come when you call them.
I don't think a mal or sibe exists with no prey drive, do they ?? !
And yes..poor recall equals being smacked upside the head by a bus because they don't want to come back..not worth the risk IMO
Originally Posted by Jackbox
How many Mals, and Huskies have you owned....as I take it you are speaking from personal experience.
Not just relaying what other have told you is possible.!!
Originally Posted by Gnasher
I've PM'd you.
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Location: Belgium
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 422
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05-06-2009, 08:35 AM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
It would be interesting to see the statistics of the amount of dogs saved by the e.collar regarding snake aversion.
To the amount that blindly stepped in the path of said snake.
and for the amount of dogs lost. Have a friend who lives in snake country ( moved there without knowing it ) He lost 3 dogs in 4 months time (2 the same day by the same snake) He did what i suggested and 3 years later his 2 new dogs are still alive with the constant presence of snakes
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Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
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05-06-2009, 08:40 AM
Originally Posted by Heldengebroed
dogs have better smell than humans and smell the snakes befor they see them. And for the statistics. The statistics will never exist because the first part are "non" events and thus never seen or never recorded
and for the amount of dogs lost. Have a friend who lives in snake country ( moved there without knowing it ) He lost 3 dogs in 4 months time (2 the same day by the same snake) He did what i suggested and 3 years later his 2 new dogs are still alive with the constant presence of snakes
I can only go by the snake bites I have known in this country.
They happen quite locally to me and in places I walk my dogs (sand dunes). Were my dogs (god forbid) to disturb a snake on the dues they would likely get bitten....the chance of them being aware of what happened is very slim. They are not serching for snakes, but playing and interacting with each other...running about like lunatics.
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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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05-06-2009, 10:38 AM
Originally Posted by Heldengebroed
dogs have better smell than humans and smell the snakes befor they see them. And for the statistics. The statistics will never exist because the first part are "non" events and thus never seen or never recorded
and for the amount of dogs lost. Have a friend who lives in snake country ( moved there without knowing it ) He lost 3 dogs in 4 months time (2 the same day by the same snake) He did what i suggested and 3 years later his 2 new dogs are still alive with the constant presence of snakes
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Location: East Midlands, UK
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,775
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05-06-2009, 01:12 PM
Originally Posted by Heldengebroed
dogs have better smell than humans and smell the snakes befor they see them. And for the statistics. The statistics will never exist because the first part are "non" events and thus never seen or never recorded
and for the amount of dogs lost. Have a friend who lives in snake country ( moved there without knowing it ) He lost 3 dogs in 4 months time (2 the same day by the same snake) He did what i suggested and 3 years later his 2 new dogs are still alive with the constant presence of snakes
I for one would definitely consider having an expert use an e-collar on Tai if he were proving to be very confrontational with snakes, which is my guess he would be !
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Location: East Midlands, UK
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,775
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05-06-2009, 01:14 PM
Originally Posted by mishflynn
He was stupid walking them there then. People can move, if they care about there dogs enough. Id prefer to move than treat my dog like a micro wave .
This is what I have gathered, I don't myself have any experience of such things.
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Location: UK
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 40
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05-06-2009, 02:22 PM
In a life and death situation , then yes of course you should do whatever it takes. However i have not found a situation that would make this a reasonable choice.
you argument about snakes is flawed from the simple case not all snakes rattle?
rattle snakes i think are very doscile snakes and rattle simply to warn hence the ratlle before stricking.
Have you noticed the reactiona dog has to hot air ballons as they make that sush noise . It is this noise ceasar uses . My belief is the noise of a ballon stimulates a inner sense within the dogs the figh or flee behaviour.
So dogs have a natural ability to be afraid of snakes?? i think they makes ia shh noise as there tounges come from there mouth ??
Remember dogs hearing in far better than ours.maybe it is just the rattle snake they did not know how to respond to as it rattles?
Hope this post makes sense.also to backup my shh theroy the animal pet trainning company now sell a shh thing that distracts dogs immeadiately from what they were doing , it has a powerfull response?? a shh in a can
the traiing method was perhaps slightly floored and done perhaps to make good t.v
don't watch much of any of these programmes sorry. i am not trying to be negetive afetr all he was probably only trying to help ,the dogs and that is always a good thing. many thanks for the question xxx
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Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
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05-06-2009, 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher
Mish, the idea of the e-collar is not to "fry" or "microwave", but to have it on the lowest setting possible so it is little more than a buzz. It is only turned up by gradual degrees if absolutely necessary.
This is what I have gathered, I don't myself have any experience of such things.
Electricity is electricity in my opinion. they work because they cause discomfort & sometimes pain.
I get static shocks everyday, they dont hurt as such but make me jump & scream & im SCARED to touch my car to shut the door. I dont want my dogs learning in such a way when there are so many better ways to teach a dog.
electricity has no place in dog training/management
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