Things wont change as long as they are bred by idiots, sold for pin money and sold to idiots who have no comprehension of what they might have to deal with to be fair

Didn't see this part of your post as you had edited after i replied.

Hip and elbow tests are not compulsary, maybe they should be. Try to find a breeder in this country that hip and elbow scores their dogs ! Even if i were to test my bithes, i couldn't find a stud dog that was tested to put across them. Maybe before you go off on one, about things you clearly know nothing about, you should be a little better informed instead of doing a quick google and thinking you have all of the answers.

What has the ammount of litters that the stud dog i used got to do with anything ? I do not own him, he is the breed record holder with 40 cc's, so i'm sure he was in quite high demand. I have seen him snarl at a few dogs in the ring too. Maybe he should be excluded from the gene pool ? I used him because i thought he complimented the bitch that i put him across.

This thread was about dog aggressive Staffords, not how many litters the stud dog that i used had

Theres got to be some that hip and elbow score their dogs as otherwise there would be no data to get a breed average, or that it should be done surely And if you did it and couldn't find a dog that was tested fully and not good enough don't breed, simples, coz not breeding is a lot better then breeding pups that aren't the best you can.

I'm not too sure how this has got turned around to hip scroes, but there ya go.

Typical of the nature of debates i suppose, someone doesn't like what is written so let's throw stones.

The BVA has not recommended that Staffords be hip and elbow scored and until they do, "most" people will not test for something that is not necessary. If it is announced by the authorites that know better that these are previlent in Staffords then i will test, as i'm sure all of the top kennels in this country will, that currently do not !

Unless of course you and JodeeUK know something that the BVA and the KC do not ?

Well this thread is about someone whose more then likely gonna be a irresponsible breeder, its moved on a bit with more info thats come to light, and I would not class anyone who breeds without doing all health tests that can affect their breed whether they are recommended or not, and see's no issue with breeding DA dogs of a breed where many are sacrificing their lives daily because their isn't enough homes for them, whether or not they have any aggression or any problems, responsible breeders IMO should know what can affect their breed, and act and test accordlingly, as unfornatly the kc has to rely on breed clubs etc for health aswell, and because things can get tied up in paperwork and red tape even if problems are known it can take a while for them to properly be commented on, and things put in place to protect the dogs, but again IMO a responsible breeder shouldn't wait and need telling what can affect their dogs and what to do about it, they should be at least two or three steps ahead and leading the way. Maybe thats just me though?

So now i'm an irrisponsible breeder, because i have bred without hip and elbow testing ?

All of the pups that i am responsible for, are in very good homes and i would take any one of them back in a heartbeat if needed.

I could give you a list of hundreds of affix's some of which would be classed at the most respected Stafford breeders in this country that do not hip and elbow score. If there was a problem that needed addressing, do you honestly not think that it would be ?

There is nothing easier than sitting on the outside throwing stones and telling people what they are doing wrong, with no facts, or very little knowledge.

I know very little about German Shepherds, i have read numerous threads about the "sloping back" but wouldn't feel that i was in a position to comment.

Good for you for saying that you will be able to take back any pups, there are many breeders who wouldn't, but if breeders know that there is anything that could affect their breed, IMO they would do anything they can to prevent any pups they breed from suffefing from it. Can I ask though, when at least hip scoring is generally the norm in many breeds why not staffords? And yes Im sat on the outside, I have no intrest in showing, and would rather espcailly in a breed that so many are pts daily rather let people know more about the dogs who are in desperate need of homes then breeding more DA dogs into the world if I'm honest.

I agree with the most part of Craig's posts, when L2 and HC became a problem in our breed it was the breeders and breed clubs that addressed the issues and worked to get tests so healthy dogs can be bred,likewise research is underway for a DNA test for PHPV.

If HD or ED became an issue then I'm damn sure the people/breeders who love this breed and have it's welfare at heart would score.

Do you also agree with his statement that SBTs are inherently dog aggressive?

It's a fact that the DA in staffords is part and parcel of the breed,many SBT's will not tolerate other dogs when they hit maturity,some will but the majority will not.

I have two complete opposites Tyler who is fantastic with dogs and Meg who hates other dogs.