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audra
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Location: wilmslow, england
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14-12-2010, 07:00 PM

Scared and timid help needed please

Hi this is my first post, i am a new member.
I have bred a lovely patterdale/toy poodle... He is now 7months old. The rest of the pups were all confident and full of there own importance.. However this little chap is scared of his own shadow, worries at feeding time (feeding time with all the pups was never a problem) just wont go near anyone, cowers a lot, if i pick him up and someone comes to say hello he goes rigid and the look of fear is on his face
When we go for a walk and i recall him back he is very cautious of me ( i do have treats to coax him) i pat him and then let him go play.
Mum is a wonderful wonderful dog, she is so obedient and does as she is told all the time. Dad is a family toy poodle. I just dont understand why he is like this?? He acts as if he has been beaten and is a rescue dog !!

Can someone please give me some advice of what to do and what i have done wrong for little Ernie to behave like this
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ClaireandDaisy
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14-12-2010, 07:17 PM
Has he been seen by a vet? Are his littermates still with you?
If his health is good maybe getting someone in to observe your interactions would be a good idea.
In the meantime what I would do is to take all pressure off him. Give him his own space. Don`t pick him up. If he seeks attention, praise him, but in a gentle way and leave it at that. Ask other family members and visitors to ignore him for a while.
Reward based training will also give him confidence. Every time he sits on command and is rewarded he feels good.
When he starts to come to you, play with him. But only short periods - always stop when he wants more, not when he`s fed up.
And take your time with him.
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Bitkin
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14-12-2010, 07:18 PM
You poor thing, do I understand correctly that you bred this litter yourself and that all the other confident puppies have gone to other homes now?

The fact that this little chap was treated no differently to the others, and is now 7 months old, would make me wonder if there is some sort of medical problem. Perhaps if you have not already done so, it would be worth taking him to your vet for a very thorough check ........even xrays possibly, just so that you can rule out pain or some other disorder.

It must be very upsetting for you.
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audra
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14-12-2010, 08:00 PM
hi
Yes i bred him and the rest of the litter have left, they went at 9weeks old. He is 7months now.
When i ask him 'to come' he cowers, looks worried and skulks away ... it is upsetting me. He needs to understand when i say 'ernie come' he should. I dont think i need the vet ( he was checked a couple of months ago ) for him as he only acts like this when i ask him to come to me, (he acts as if he has done something wrong and gets scared) or if a stranger wants to say hi to him (when we go to the park)
He very rarely seeks attention from us and has his own space 99% of the time.
Thank you i shall try reward based training. xx
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Dobermann
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14-12-2010, 08:13 PM
Has he had a bad experience? Perhaos someone asked him to come and lost their temper? Or he isnt sure whats expected?
I agree with C&D's advice but you could also try changing 'come' to 'here' or something and start again, using the positive methods that C&D recommended. Remember that dogs go through fear periods too, until fully mature.
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audra
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14-12-2010, 08:23 PM
not that i know of.. he is with me all the time, i have older children who are great with him and he plays with them, i just find it rather sad that he is worried with us. I have just been in the kitchen and just randomly stroked his mum which she loves then i bent to stroke him, his tail went in between his legs and was unsure. So i stopped and carried on what i was doing, he jumped up and wanted more fuss, so i tried again to stroke him on his back or head and again he looked and acted worried ... oh well i will just persevere and hope he will get more confidence as he matures.. thanks for your help x
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Helena54
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14-12-2010, 08:43 PM
Very strange isn't it I'm with Dobermann on this one, it sounds as if somebody has spoken harshly to him and frightened him, but you'll probably never know.

Try changing the tone of your voice, i.e. don't command him to "come" to you, use a really nice, happy friendly voice (as if you're a tad on the mad side, but he'll love it!) and when he does give him a treat, and never, ever, ever put your hand over his head with the state he's in, just hold your hand underneath his head very slowly, and see if he tolerates it. It could well be that some bright spark has approached him and done the dreaded deed of putting his hand over his head probably during the "fear" period (just like happened to me at a training class ), but I can't remember which month that fear period kicks in?
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Laura-Anne
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14-12-2010, 08:50 PM
When I rehomed Totts she was very nervous and timid. She wouldnt even sleep lying down! I dont know if the things I done were wrong or I should be recommending but its the little things that worked for me. So if you dont feel comfortable trying them please dont!

Totts was scared of everything and everyone. we used "positive" stroking which is meant to make her feel good about herself. Apparantly if you rub under the chin and chest upwards its meant to make them more confident. Just something I was told, dont know the theory. But with Totts when you storked her her ears would lie flat against her head. Apparantly your to avoid stroking the top of the head because its worrying for them. Stroking her that way they wouldnt.

Rather than towering over her on recall we would get down to her level. This still works today. (Should note she is a JRT cross-possibly chihuahua or patterdale)We lie flat on our back and call her, it think its less threatening. Possibly shows submissive. She is still unsure of my partner, he needs to do this to get her to recall. Of course this is not practical outside but its just temporary until can progress. Would only do this when alone with the pup so you have each others complete focus, and to be honest im not to sure about it altogether because it is putting yourself into a vulnerable position. It was due to the extremety of Totts nerves that we used it, but it worked with her. (only had to do this for a very short period of time until she realised that good things happened when she cam to us, never bad. Would only do this in our house, she didnt get off-lead until had 100% recall.)

We done bags and bags of positive reinforcement training. She had no training prior. It worked wonders with her. She loves her training now and is very eager to please. She is now top in her class (which is the highest level training class)

She would never come near us. Now she spends majority of her time cuddled into me on the sofa (she waits till I allow her to come up). She nudges me for strokes now.

I used positive reinforcement to start teaching her how to play.

The last big step with me and totts was to do something extreme after building some trust. We climbed Ben Nevis. Obviously i would never recommend anyone to do that but maybe something simalair like agility or something that requires working as a team and building on the trust established.

everything was baby steps but I have a totally different dog now. Wish the people who owned her before could see how much they damaged her.

Dont know if any of that will help, but as I say just what has worked for me. Get in touch anytime if you need to. I know how difficult it can be.

Probably complete jibberish but I can empathise so even if a tiny fraction of that helps, worth it.
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Laura-Anne
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14-12-2010, 08:54 PM
Should also note we cant speak firmly with Totts ever, not worth it sets her back. Everything is entirely positive reinforcement. Even if your body language changes she picks up on it and gets nervous. Everything is cooey silly sounding voice
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Dobermann
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14-12-2010, 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by Helena54 View Post
Very strange isn't it I'm with Dobermann on this one, it sounds as if somebody has spoken harshly to him and frightened him, but you'll probably never know.

Try changing the tone of your voice, i.e. don't command him to "come" to you, use a really nice, happy friendly voice (as if you're a tad on the mad side, but he'll love it!) and when he does give him a treat, and never, ever, ever put your hand over his head with the state he's in, just hold your hand underneath his head very slowly, and see if he tolerates it. It could well be that some bright spark has approached him and done the dreaded deed of putting his hand over his head probably during the "fear" period (just like happened to me at a training class ), but I can't remember which month that fear period kicks in?
There are a few - about 14 months was a noticeable time for my dobe, not sure if all breeds/sizes are at the same time? They soon come out of it but I'm glad I knew about it as otherwise I can see how it would possibly change temprement...can creep up on you between 8-11 weeks and anytime from 6-14 months they can have 'fear periods'

Audra, I'd say make sure you down to his level and pet him on the side or under his chin, where he can see your arm/hand and your not towering over him may help.
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