....anyone that uses or is contemplating using an electric-shock collar on dogs....would be best off playing with remote controlled toys....jmho.

Was he good fun? What pub was this then?!!

Yes exactly, I've always played on the floor with my dogs, do not care who says what - I know it's OK

Very True

I think open minds are important, we don't know everything and although I do think science, learning theory etc is very important, I try not to let it blinker me. I hope I use it so that it enhances rather than not, if you see what I mean. But all dog help should be dog and owner centred, reams of OC theory mean very little, or are confusing to owners, and dont help. You need down to earth people as trainers/behaviourists, preferably those who have also had dog problems! Like we have?
Not judging, understanding, and being dog and owner centred, all important stuff

And yes intuition too.
Good stuff.

Wys
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Just catching up a bit. I agree, one of the main things about shock collars is that they are recommended for BASIC training. I really really hate this so much.

Wys
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Adam, my friend in the US sees a huge number of shock collar trained dogs. By huge, I mean not just regulars but also different dogs during her walking week, so she relates to me just the reality of owners with shock collars. Some are sad tales i dont really even want to relate here as I do find it deeply depressing.

But, one thing we both find amusing, if a little sad (ie we'd cry if we didn't laugh) is that for most of these owners, the shock collar does not seem to be much good for dog training, either basic or advanced, for them

So many of the dogs wear shock collars, owners walking around dutifully carrying remotes. But time and again, my friend relates to me how dogs are not able to be recalled, owners do not have much control over their dogs, and so on.

Her dog is a superb, beautiful reward trained large breed. He knocks the socks off the shock collar trained dogs, by recalling, coming off prey chasing, etc. I know this is true as we exchange training videos

Granted she's put in many hours and is interested in training BUT the truth is that the owners and their shock collar trained dogs are LESS happy and have less control than her reward trained dog.

I have to say this, to counterbalance your claims, as it's so easy to say that shock collars solve all. For some, they might (at the cost of the relationship? or some other fallout? maybe).

But the truth is, the raw fact is, that for many, this is NOT the case.
Many owners go struggling on feeling depressed and anxious. Indeed, these owners more so, as they feel after using shock - what is left? They are bemused, sometimes protective over their decisoin to use shock, but mostly just unable to control their dogs .......

Wys
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I have to stand up for it a bit, but I do see where you are coming from (and we always have interesting chats don't we )

Wys
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I've just remembered we've chatted re. dog social groups, I knew I knew the name!
I wonder re the bushes/long grass, have you tried doing lots of training around them? if you get a chance to do so. Sometimes, if you train enough, you can get an almost reflex action (i get this with chase recall and my BSd). The dog hardly, or perhaps doesn't, actually think - just reacts to your call. For this though I use a predictive reward - you have to give good rewards and high value (for the dog).

Not sure if it may help. It may well be safer/better to keep him on the long line that you can grab, in the preferred areas - he clearly has a good life, dog friends, accepting owners of other dogs, etc
Do you feel you may be asking for too much?
Not saying you are, only wondering what I'd do in your shoes.

Wys
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Can someone else post please

Wys
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i dont want to feed the e-collar troll

Adam the pics Minni posted of the Dobe with the the e.collar strapped to his testicles,, does that not horrify you your statement above sounds very matter of fact.

Have you used an e.collar in this way.

Are you really saying to teach a sit , one needs to use an e.collar

Are you seriously suggesting to Michael to go and buy her own e.collar and use it without any form of training

Tell me Adam, have you ever strapped an e.collar to the same places on yourself, as you do on a dog , and used the "STIM" , maybe try it on your own, nether regions and allow me (any takers) to stim you, when I ask you to sit or comt to call!


One thing I have noticed from you Adam, is yes you are polite, (misguided but polite) but the other thing that stands out is your own self importance!


I have been around this and other sites for a long time now, and we see some very good trainers, experienced dog people, we have some of the best here.

BUT in all the yrs have I yet to hear anyone start sentences with " I am a dog trainer"! something you do regularly, as often as you can.

I agree with others who have suggested you have no compassion or love of the dog, you see it as a way to boast your inflated ego,

Come back when you grow up, and tell us you can achieve success, with out inflicting this cruelty on your clients dogs!!

Because at the moment, there does not seem to be one supporter of you or your methods here!!

Wow Jackbax I had missed that bit

Even if I thought shock collar training had a place (which of course I dont) on an open forum a 'dog trainer' shouldnt be recomending people get them so he can teach them to use them over the internet

If you are going to use any kind of punishment training you have to know exactly why the dog is doing what he is doing and have perfect timing

Although pretty much all of the positive trainers on here recomend getting a pro in to asses the dog, even if you mess up your timing with treat training all that really happens is the dog gets and extra treat - if he was looking at a child or a car instead of the sheep or whatever then he is going to have no bad associations with these other things

That is very dangerous advice to the regular dog owner