I'm sorry they just look like collies to me. Rescue centres are filled with dogs that look like these
Becky

Quote from the above mentioned site:
And yet on that site there's no mention of any health testing done on any of the dogs. What a load of crock - they have three breeds, all with similar hereditary health problems and expect them to be bred out because they've put them all together? I detest all this hybrid vigour claptrap. What planet are these people on???

Debs

thanks for the link Aussie,
I now have to say though the ones on the link are to my eye collies, the photos on a post earlyer did make them look a bit diff, I thought poss they had set colour markings or paterns but they seem to go from looking like BMD /to /Newf's to normal collies, (but im no expert on collies)
awe well, wonder how much they cost there is not a price in the paper,??

Hybrid vigour itself isn't claptrap but a well recognised scientific phenomenon. But hardly applicable here, as any benefits resulting from crossing two unrelated lines (breeds) is lost as soon as you breed back in to create the 'breed.' Though it does look as if the gene pool is kept open as the merle is not a colour that could just appear from black & whites or tris.

But still, yes I agree, very worrying rubbish on that webpage!

Hybrid vigour is rubbish, certainly the way it is portrayed by these cross breeders. They seem to imply that you don't need to do any testing becuase of 'hybrid vigour'.
If you mate two breeds together that have a short lifespan because of their size the offspring aren't suddenly going to live longer.
There is no substitute for breeding properly, having researched your breed thoroughly, made sure your breeding stock has been health tested, is a good example of their breed and you only use healthy tested stud dogs.
To just say oh 'hybrid vigour' is a very poor excuse. After all If I crossed a Poodle (with pra) to another breed that had the same type of pra you aren't going to have a litter of puppies that don't have pra.
Becky

some people,the things they'll do,and say to see mongrels

Aah the usual load of tripe that's trotted out to 'justify' cross breeding then

Both Newfies and Berners are excellent companion dogs in themselves. I can't see any advantage in introducing the Collies element at all, especially since they have other health issues altogether!

There is a much lower chance of any recessive defects appearing in the puppies of a crossbred litter because unrelated lines are less likely to carry the same alleles ... but that's not what hybrid vigour is about.

Hybrid vigour comes about because the cross between two unrelated lines increases diversity of the MHC (major histocompatibility) genes associated with immune responses which are said to have a direct link to longevity and vigour.

But that's certainly no excuse for avoiding health testing or deliberate crossbreeding for the wrong reasons.

I agree that deliberate cross breeding is not a good idea unless all the health tests have been done.
As I mentioned in my previous post Zanta was an accidental mating but all the breeders dogs are health tested.
As for price Zanta cost us £400 at the time (2 yrs ago) which was half the price of a pedigree Berner not sure how much the Newfie pups are,but we didn't mind paying that as we know the dogs met both Parents and knew the health tests have been done.
We wouldn't of been so keen to pay that sort of money for a cross breed with none of the relevant tests and not know the breeder.