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bebe
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09-03-2007, 11:54 AM
Originally Posted by Meganrose View Post
I really don't think some of the comparisons quoted such as guns and cars are at all helpful, unless you believe that a dog is an innate, unthinking and unfeeling object, as yes I take the point that it's a car with a driver and a gun with a shooter that does the damage but, and it's a big but, a dog is a thinking and feeling living being that will chose to carry out certain behaviours/actions or chose not to, however well it has been trained. .
Ok, but what about the rabbit that attacked my daughter? That wasnt an inate unfeeling object, but the only reason it was in a position to attack was because the Father of the other girl put it in that position, so, again, HUMAN ERROR/ IRRESPONSIBILITY, was to blame, just like the majority of dog attacks on children. Also, I dont believe the stats quoted here, 2% being pitbulls owned in usa is rubbish, they are a very very popular breed that untill recentely were not recognised by the AKC, so simply wernt registered. I also dont believe there are more attacks on children by pits than other breeds, its just that those other bites dont get the publicity that pitbulls do when they bite, partly because obviously they wont do as much damage as a pit, but also because bites from a yorkie or poodle dont get reported. Its an unfair and misleading set of statistics.
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Borderdawn
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09-03-2007, 12:40 PM
Most people defending this breed, can you answer this please.

You are saying these dogs are temperamentally sound, and to quote from one post "they are normally gentle, solid and puppy like until their middle years. Pit bulls aren't prone to fear responses like some breeds as they simply don't have a fearful bone in their body. They live to explore their world. Things that might another dog "snap" is likely just to be something new and interesting for the Pit Bull to check out. "
So, how come when they get loose they usually cause serious damage? They attack other dogs, they attack people? If their temperaments are so sound, why do they set off and do these things? I mean the majority of dogs that escape from homes are picked up by locals/dog wardens etc without a problem, so why are we hearing about Pit bulls getting loose from owners/homes and behaving like this if you are saying they are sound in mind and not a threat?

Explain to me why they appear to "snap"
Dawn.
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Helena54
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09-03-2007, 12:44 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Most people defending this breed, can you answer this please.

You are saying these dogs are temperamentally sound, and to quote from one post "they are normally gentle, solid and puppy like until their middle years. Pit bulls aren't prone to fear responses like some breeds as they simply don't have a fearful bone in their body. They live to explore their world. Things that might another dog "snap" is likely just to be something new and interesting for the Pit Bull to check out. "
So, how come when they get loose they usually cause serious damage? They attack other dogs, they attack people? If their temperaments are so sound, why do they set off and do these things? I mean the majority of dogs that escape from homes are picked up by locals/dog wardens etc without a problem, so why are we hearing about Pit bulls getting loose from owners/homes and behaving like this if you are saying they are sound in mind and not a threat?
Dawn.
This is exactly what I was going to say too Dawn! The programme I was on about in my other post, filmed the 2 dogs escaping from the front garden of this house, they both ran a few doors down the road where they found a house with the patio doors open. In they went, saw the woman standing there doing her ironing, and quickly got her on the ground and started their attack!!! Now can you honestly tell me there is another breed of dog around that would even think of doing this??? If dogs escape, the first thing they think of is purely running around freely, and most of them would ignore other dogs and people in their way, not these two, they deliberately honed in on the woman and went into the house?? It just doesn't seem quite normal behaviour for any dog to do that, unless they are out to savage something. Even a police dog on the loose wouldn't start attacking somebody for no reason would it?? That's what I can't get my head around with these types of dogs.
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Stamford
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09-03-2007, 01:03 PM
You are trying to convince me that no other breed would attack! That is rubbish and you know it.I have witnessed a GSD escape from his garden and attack a small child,My father had to free the child and was bitten quite badly in doing so.Most dogs would run about enjoying their freed om if they escaped yes.But i believe that most PBs would too.As for dog on dog aggression i also do not believe that PBs are the only breed that would attack another dog whilst out free.Not trying to be controversial here Dawn or Helena54 just saying what i beleive.
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Meg
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09-03-2007, 01:03 PM
Originally Posted by muttzrule View Post
Sorry another post another reply, about the statitstic that states that pit bulls make up only 2% of all dogs, I would doubt seriously the validity of that statistic.
The statistics above are from a group of attorneys who handle dog bite cases in the USA , I have included the link .The 2% relates to the US dog population as a whole but of course it does not include any dogs that are 'hidden' to avoid legislation. It seems a reasonable figure to me if one takes into account all the many other breeds available. I am sure most reasonable people who want a pet would choose a breed that isn't restricted.

http://www.dog-bite-law-center.com/pgs/stats.html


Pit Bulls are now widely popular as companion dogs, especially in American cities. Their popularly is strange given their homicidal history and aggressive in-bred traits, but that is seemingly part of the appeal. With its powerful jaws, thick skull and muscular legs the American Pit Bull Terrier (and related breeds) makes short work of children and adults it attacks often maiming them for life. The very name "pit bull" is used in our language to signify a singularly tenacious state of being.

This breed is variously cited as being responsible for nearly a third of all fatal dog attacks in the United States, in part due to its tenacity in a fight. Pit bulls cause one-third of dog-bite related fatalities while only make up less than 2% of the dog population.Because of the deaths, maulings and serious injuries inflicted by Pit Bulls, many countries worldwide ban these dogs altogether or require licenses for ownership of them. In response to many high profile maulings and fatal attacks by Pit Bulls, many US cities and towns have specifically targeted the breed with legislation restricting ownership and increasing penalties on owners for attacks made by their Pit Bulls. Pit Bulls are often responsible for attacking and killing other dog breeds as well as cats and small pets. Police officers often need to shoot and kill this breed in order to subdue it after attacks on humans or other animals in US cities. In recent years several owners of these dogs in the United States have been criminally prosecuted in homicide cases. Sadly, many of the owners of these deadly dogs do not possess insurance and the maimed victims go uncompensated.
Below are statistics for a ten year period from US accident prevention and goverment institutions, it covers fatalities not serious bites. Pit Bull Types account for 66 fatalities.
1979–1998
Breed
Pit bull-type 2 5 10 9 11* 8 6 5 4* 6 66
Rottweiler 0 0 1 1 3 1 3 10 10 10 39
German Shepherd Dog 2 1 4* 1 1 4* 2 0 2 0 17
Husky-type 2 1 2 2 0 2 2 1 2 1 15
Malamute 2 0 3 1 0 2 3 1 0 0 12
Doberman Pinscher 0 1 0 2 2 2 1 0 0 1 9
Chow Chow 0 1 0 0 0 2 3 0 2 0 8
Great Dane 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 1 7
Saint Bernard 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 7

Crossbred
Wolf-dog hybrid 0 1 1 2 1 4 1 2 2 0 14
Mixed-breed 0 3 1 2 1 2 0 1 1 1 12
German Shepherd Dog 0 2 0 2 2 2† 0 1 2 0 10†
Pit bull-type 0 1 0 3 2† 3 1 1 0 0 10†
Husky-type 0 1 1 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 6
Rottweiler 0 0 0 0 1† 1 0 1 1 2 5†
Alaskan Malamute 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 0 0 3
Chow Chow 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 3
Doberman Pinscher 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0
Saint Bernard 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1
Great Dane 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1† 0†
No. deaths for which 10 20 26* 24 22 34* 24 25 26* 27 238
breed was known
*Numbers differ from previous reports because police/guard dogs "at work" were excluded, and 1 new DBRF was identified as occurring in 1996. †A purebred dog


http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf


Whether Pit Bulls are more aggressive than other dogs is not the topic here, the topic is are they dangerous.
If we take the number of fatalities it would seem that they are more dangerous than other breeds because the chances of being bitten by a Pit Bull and the injury proving fatal is higher than with any other breed.

With so many lovely breeds being available I can't understand why people prefer to keep a dog that in certain circumstances can inflict the maximum amount of damage.
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Meganrose
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09-03-2007, 01:36 PM
Originally Posted by bebe View Post
Ok, but what about the rabbit that attacked my daughter? That wasnt an inate unfeeling object, but the only reason it was in a position to attack was because the Father of the other girl put it in that position, so, again, HUMAN ERROR/ IRRESPONSIBILITY, was to blame, just like the majority of dog attacks on children. Also, I dont believe the stats quoted here, 2% being pitbulls owned in usa is rubbish, they are a very very popular breed that untill recentely were not recognised by the AKC, so simply wernt registered. I also dont believe there are more attacks on children by pits than other breeds, its just that those other bites dont get the publicity that pitbulls do when they bite, partly because obviously they wont do as much damage as a pit, but also because bites from a yorkie or poodle dont get reported. Its an unfair and misleading set of statistics.
Maybe true but I stress again the question is about pit bullsand the facts and statistic quoted all relate to that. As with anything you can always relate it to something else if you want to, however far removed from the actual question/problem .
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Ramble
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09-03-2007, 01:46 PM
[QUOTE=bebe;946766]Ok, but what about the rabbit that attacked my daughter? That wasnt an inate unfeeling object, but the only reason it was in a position to attack was because the Father of the other girl put it in that position, so, again, HUMAN ERROR/ IRRESPONSIBILITY, was to blame, just like the majority of dog attacks on children. Also, I dont believe the stats quoted here, 2% being pitbulls owned in usa is rubbish, they are a very very popular breed that untill recentely were not recognised by the AKC, so simply wernt registered. I also dont believe there are more attacks on children by pits than other breeds, its just that those other bites dont get the publicity that pitbulls do when they bite, partly because obviously they wont do as much damage as a pit, but also because bites from a yorkie or poodle dont get reported. Its an unfair and misleading set of statistics.[/QUOTE]

In this country at least, I'm guessing that dog bites, treated in a hospital will have to be reported or registered somewhere...
The statistics are there...
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SBT
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09-03-2007, 01:49 PM
Statistics do not show whether a Pit Bull is more likely to bite and is not proof of a Pit Bull being dangerous in comparison with other breeds, the thing I would like to know is why the rate of Pit Bull attacks are high, is it because of the Pit Bull owner type, or other outside influences or is it the actual breed, the only way of really knowing would be to set up an experiment specificity to test whether a Pit Bull is more of a danger than most breeds.
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Ramble
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09-03-2007, 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by SBT View Post
Statistics do not show whether a Pit Bull is more likely to bite they show what has happened in the past and is not proof of a Pit Bull being dangerous in comparison to other breeds, the thing I would like to know is why the rate of Pit Bull attacks are high, is it because of the Pit Bull owner type, or other outside influences or is it the actual breed, the only way of really knowing would be to set up an experiment specificity to test whether a Pit Bull is more of a danger than most breeds.
I do see your point...
BUT I think the statistics have been brought into this as people kept saying pitbulls were no more likely to bite than other breeds, in fact people were saying there were other breeds more likely to bite.....that doesn't, from the stats, seem to be the case????
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Borderdawn
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09-03-2007, 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by Stamford View Post
You are trying to convince me that no other breed would attack! That is rubbish and you know it.I have witnessed a GSD escape from his garden and attack a small child,My father had to free the child and was bitten quite badly in doing so.Most dogs would run about enjoying their freed om if they escaped yes.But i believe that most PBs would too.As for dog on dog aggression i also do not believe that PBs are the only breed that would attack another dog whilst out free.Not trying to be controversial here Dawn or Helena54 just saying what i beleive.
I know youre not.

Nobody has answered me yet, can anybody explain why this type of dog, given all your testimonies to their temperament, explain why the majority "flip" when they escape or get loose, causing the damage we are seeing. With such superb temperaments, why do they attack?
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