I understand you - just happen to feel differently on the subject, each to their own. I was aware that not many (if any) would even bother signing/agreeing. But I am sure the thread will make 11 or so pages!

hmm yes I guess where do you draw the like between 'presenting' and actually cheating

tbh I think dogs should be as natural as possible so the judge is able to judge the actual dog and not the presentation

does a big topknot make the dog 'better'?
a wash., a brush and possibly a trim, thats all a dog should really need - they are dogs after all

Hairspray on a dog Good heavens!
If that`s what happens, then yes there should be testing.

Yes hairspray is often used in poodles.

well exactly where is the line drawn? Most products are freely for sale at these shows, maybe trading stands need lists of produces not to sell, as handlers and groomers cant use them on the dogs in the ring, maybe we should all show the dogs un groomed..The public will love travelling and in some cases paying to see that

I am no disagreeing that a bath, and trim is all thats needed in most cases, but handlers do like to go above that for perfection, I see nothing wrong unless a dog is suffering due to it.

I know what you mean but actually I would prefer to see that
I really dont like dogs all primped up, my dogs have shiny coats cos they have shiny coats - not cos something is put on them

& I understand where your coming from, we all see showing as something different..To me its abit of fun, I like to be involved in the overall breed and showings apart of that..But the truth is showing is just a doggy beauty show..
Three or so years ago I would have agreed with you, showing dogs un touched, but now I cant help but enjoy putting the work into my dogs the night before a show and feeling proud when their placed - knowing they're looking they're best - because two/three hours later they will be covered in mud again

I agree with it.

Hairspray goes too far IMO.

I'd love to see an au naturale dog show! Perfection is stressed too highly these days.

Thats because we take pride in our dogs - you wouldnt go to any other dog event without grooming, sometimes bathing the dog the night before - showing is no different - its a daily thing.

Hairspray is to far on what account, no ones gave a vaild reason..it causes no harm..the KC officials ripping hair out casues suffering.

And if exhibitors didn't cheat,the KC wouldn't need to test coats would they,why should some get away with bending the rules ?

In our breed some exhibitors have used black nail enamel on light nails and been found out,can always remember a certain judge chipping away a dogs nail enamel......

If you don't like the rules and regulations then don't enter,if you do and get caught,well it's tough,you know you are breaking the rules.