i might try to look at his book (not buying it though!!!!!)

Oh dear I spoke too soon
I am sure noone actually ment you know sod all - but things have got a bit heated on here
I know I get frustraited when things that are so black and white to me are seen differently to other people - and I constantly delete my answers to type other (and prob not as good ones)
But I really liked the fact that we were putting across different points of views
and sarah and bullyboy were actually joining the debate and explaining what they saw in the clips rather than just saying 'hes good cos he is innit?!'

In this case I totaly dissagree with Sarahs view on CM - but I was interested in it
on the other forum that shall reamin nameless I totaly dissagreed with sarahs feeding ideas
But I listened and they actually made sense to me - she and another on here converted me to feed Ben in a different way (although they didnt know at the time cos I was lurking in the thread)
Its good to have different points of view
frustraiting too
But as positive trainers I feel I shoud state my side, what I dont like and how I would do it different and if CM shows any good behaiviour I should praise praise praise
we have made our minds up but it might be usefull for an undecided lurker to hear both sides (although its a brave man who starts reading this thread now - who knows how many pages there are since I started typing!)

you can read my copy

Just got very offended at the use of "someone on here" meaning "me" that was getting used, Gnasher also does this cos she knows it winds me up, if ive said something QUOTE it, then dismissing it & on the other hand telling me i wont listen & implying i am biased/blind & stupid & know nothing about dogs because i disagree with her!!!!!!

I wouldn't expect you to, like Ailsa aka Ramble try the library

mishflyyn
So sorry for your friend that is so tough

bullyboy
Yup people are wrong if they never phase out the treats a bit
sure when its 1st taught you treat lots then you start asking for more
also treats aint always food - like bum has to be on floor b4 ball is chucked
play tuggy for a good recal
head between legs (his) but scratchy foot stompy pat for a good agility run

no...dont want one where my dogs can see it!!!!!
They are highly motivated Athletes. i will read it safely in a shop or libary!!!!! ...cant risk upsetting my babies!!!!!

Is anyone interested in Jonbees owners response to queries raised
I am Patrice Lincoln, JonBee’s owner. I can understand to a degree why you found our episode disturbing. It was disturbing watching poor JonBee desperately trying to control his situation and trying to dominate Cesar. However, JonBee was the violent participant in his rehabilitation – not Cesar. Cesar was nothing but calm and gentle with him. JonBee’s violence was precisely why we needed Cesar. We had tried other trainers who recommended that we euthanize JonBee. Cesar was JonBee’s last hope. Having been in the room, I can guarantee you that Cesar was not choking JonBee. If that were the case, I do not think that Scott and I would just stand by and watch our dog be choked. If you look closely you will see that Cesar held the leash right under the JonBee’s chin – not around his throat which is where one would hold a leash if one wished to choke an animal. You can also see that JonBee was breathing the entire time. You can hear the primal sounds coming from deep within him.
With regard to your concern about the danger of people trying this technique at home, I would hope that people would heed Cesar’s caveat in the beginning of the show about non-professionals attempting such techniques.
Our episode may have been quite different from others we have seen but it was not as you say, “made for TV.” It was a repeat of what Scott and I had experienced with JonBee many times since we brought him home. JonBee did not need to be provoked to become that violent. Had it been a chore to provoke JonBee into such violent behavior, Scott and I would not allow anyone to do so for the sake of a TV show.
JonBee’s rehabilitation has been miraculous for our whole family. Cesar “broke” him, just as a professional would break a wild horse. Only after a horse is broken can he be ridden. Likewise, JonBee has been broken and has now become a member of our pack. He no longer has to try to dominate the pack because he now knows he is not the boss. Our episode was filmed in October 2005. Since then we have been working with JonBee every day just as Cesar taught us, and his behavior has not relapsed one bit, nor is his spirit broken – quite the contrary – he is a happy, well-behaved, sweet, loving boy who soaks up all the love and affection we give him, and which he so deserves after the horrific abuse he endured in his first years. We love him dearly.
If the episode repeats I hope you will watch it again and pay close attention to Cesar’s gentleness and calm during the rehabilitation.

im glad shes pleased with the result.

Very interesting reading thanks trouble.

I disagree with this inexperinced owners take on what happened, but then i would!!!!

I try not to watch those clips and prefer to watch on the big screen and see the whole program, but from what I recall were they not supposed to be experienced rescuers not inexperienced owners.