Good training classes...what makes one?

Sigh.
I admit I have been exceptionally spoilt with training classes...thanks to our work with assistance dogs and a very good friend who is an APDT trainer (and assessor...)
Sadly though it makes me look at classes in a different way to other people (or at least so it would seem).

We went to one today...in a field. Fine.20+dogs aging from 13 weeks to 13 years. At least one severely dog aggressive one...a child was handling quite an aggressive terrier, who kept provoking the young lab next to it... One trainer who spent his time up and down the middle of the 2 lines of dogs, shouting orders and smoking. The other trainer (who took over half way through) was better and explained things well, but I stood watching wondering what the dogs were actually learning.

Lots of them learnt that the word 'heel' means to stand on two legs and choke whilst walking on your back legs...the rest learnt that the word heel means to pull into your collar.

Cosmo learnt not to be happy. Truly. Admittedly he started off barking out of excitement and being very lively ...he finished, not wagging his tail and looking quite glum, even if he was quiet and sitting at OH's left hand side.

I wonder what the point of classes like this are? I didn't see dogs learning anything (or owners) they pulled onto the field and they pulled off of the field.... I wonder what the owners were wanting? I truly don't think they learnt too much.

I am left wondering what the point of the classes are....it isn't to do with socialisation as there was none. (The dogs could be let off on the next field afterwards but not under the supervision of trainers and there was a disclaimer about it on the handout... ) The owners weren't learning much...a lot of them were very hot under the collar. The dogs...well I didn't see them learning anything good.


Don't get me wrong, I like the second trainer and thought he was genuine and his heart was in the right place. I also thought he was making exceptionally easy money....


I have no problem with the 'heel' classes and 'handlers and dogs forward' classes...I know many frown on them now....but ...I don't know...is it just me? Am I being too picky? This class was recommended by people who's opinion I do respect....
Sigh.

From the APDT page on finding a trainer...

Always go to watch a training class without your dog before you book.

Dogs and people should look relaxed and happy.
Punitive methods or equipment should not be in use. Choke/check chains, tight slip collars and prong collars are not necessary and are totally inappropriate as training equipment in pet dog classes.
Noise should be kept to a minimum - shouting is not necessary and lots of barking can indicate that the dogs are stressed.
Instructors should be approachable. Do they appear friendly and caring in the best Interests of owner and dog?
How many dogs are there in the class? Bear in mind the size of the venue, as well as the number of assistants. Can the instructor keep an eye on everyone?
Methods should suit the dog and handler in question. Food and toys are excellent motivators. Not many dogs work for praise alone. Training should be kind, fair and effective.
A training class is not the place to try to solve a behavioural problem with a dog. Aggressive or nervous dogs need individual attention away from the class environment before reassessment.

Found here...
http://www.apdt.co.uk/choosing_dog_trainer_uk.asp

I have to admit I don't think pups should be in with older dogs...or aggressive dogs.

What do other people think? What is everyone else's experience of classes? (Good and bad)...or doesn't it really matter as long as your dog isn't attacked (which I know happens at many classes...dogs were certainly being lunged at at this one.)

Maybe I'm too picky.

The bit I left quoted was exactly what the trainer did with Missy. Used food as a reward - had a few one to one sessions with her before she went into the unsocialised adults class - and she got on great guns.
Went on to do agility and could be off lead around any dog once on the agility field.

I would never have put her in a general class myself - and if someone had suggested it I would have walked away. Of course, that was all three years ago now - but the principle's timeless.

The best training class I ever went to (now sadly stopped) was where we stood about and talked about what we were trying to do. (Have our dog stop trying to attack other dogs or people) Then the trainer explained exactly what he wanted us to do and why. Then we had a go at it, with one dog at a time and everyone discussed it and learned a bit and asked questions.
Everyone went away knowing a bit more. Every dog went away having moved closer their goal.
A perfect class.
Why not start your own, Ramble?

There are a lot of training classes like that.
The benefit for my dog would be that she is outside with other dogs and distractions but not interacting. She is just so friendly and wants to play with everyone so it is good that the other dogs are under control and she is learning to focus on me with other dogs around.
There are usually too many dogs to do heelwork together but this is often how it is done. I would worry that it might affect what she learns and would not do competition heelwork in this environment. If I wanted to work on my heelwork etc I would go for a 1-to-1 with a good trainer.
So some positives and some negatives.
I would personally be prepared to travel to a good class if necessary.

This sounds like one we took Woody too. It was dreadful and the trainer spent most of the lesson pinning an over excited retriever to the ground as the stroppy teenager handling her had a fit and threw the lead down.

Needless to say we didn't go back!!

We're absolutely loving our gundog trainer. He charges £25 for an hour one on one and you go whenever you like and train on anything you need to.

A good class, for me is quite simply one that makes you work hard but is fun, not just for the pup but for you. A good trainer is someone who can not only read your dog, but can read you as a handler and work on you as much as you work your pup.

what makes a good class?

a good trainer with a sense of humour and lots of different ideas and approcahes

good trainees with senses of humour and not afraid to chip in

encouragement & enjoyment



I wouldnt want to ban aggressive/hyper/young/old dogs, just the owners if people, especially the trainers are dog aware then there shouldnt be a problem, when they're not you end up with problems (such as a scared little Indy dog!)

I agree and sounds like yuo found a perfect class for you and Missy.
Your class sounds brill too. I am tempted to start my own and it has been suggested to me. I think there is a definite gap in the 'market' but am trying to persuade my friend to fill it first so I can just go along!
We travelled 40 minutes to this one and would have gone further...we won't travel to it again though I don't think.

Yes...there was no real individual attention at this class though as there were far too many people. Today was quiet apparently, normally there is in excess of 25..
I agree with most of it and don't think dogs should be 'banned' but I do think they should have 'support' and perhaps be worked with outside of the classes prior to joining them.Actually the dog aggressive dog here could have been a distance away and slowly moved in.
Having pups in with aggressive dogs doesn't do them any good I don't think.Pups have very specific needs and so I think need specific classes.

The dogs today were showing classic signs of stress......

Ailsa,

I have first hand experience of this class and do have to say that in defence the midweek classes are quieter and Fudge and I did learn a lot together. You also get the off lead play time in the same field.

we learned how to do a sit, down ,wait come and a very effective recall. Did Fudge enjoy herself? She certainly enjoyed the play session.

What level of class did you attend? Those who have been attending a long time have very impressively trained dogs with excellent skills.They do obedience display work over the Summer months.

I would love to experience a differnet sort of class if you can find one locally enough as this is all I have had experience of.

Hi Rachel
We attended the beginners class, as we were told to do when we phoned.
We saw some of the dogs that have been attending for a long time, but in all honesty...I wasn't very impressed, as one was very hand shy and another cowered when it was told 'no' firmly. I have had year old dogs at the level they were at, but they had no such problems. (I hasten to add Cosmo is NOT and will never be at that level as we have approached life with him very differently....)

There was a disclaimer on the handout we were given about classes when we arrived, saying dogs could go off lead on the field next to the ones the classes were in, both before and after class..but that they were not responsible for the dogs then and it was at the owners own risk.

Enjoying the playtime is great, but I truly believe that dogs should enjoy training and enjoy the classes.
Cosmo developed an itch....and got tired (yawning)....classic signs of stress...there were lots of dogs lip licking and yawning...

Part of my problem, I suppose, is that I want to have fun with my dog. Yes, I want him to learn (good things) but I want him to have fun doing it...I want him to be happy and offer behaviours because he totally understands what I mean and because he wants to....
I just saw lots of stress.....and the potential for more problems.
Don't get me wrong, as I said I liked the trainer and I think he was a genuine man who loves dogs very much...BUT the classes weren't ideal.
A man marching up and down the middle barking orders with a fag hanging out of his mouth isn't a great introduction to dog training for a 13 week old puppy and it's family.(That wasn't the main trainer )

I attended fantastic classes with Cosmo til he was about 6 months old, then the next class was too late at night. I'll PM you a link, but the trainers are exceptional, the classes are small (10 dogs to 2 trainers,with pups under 17 weeks 8 dogs to two trainers...a helper is also there). The trainers work one to one with the dogs as well as in a group, handouts were provided, clickers were used, stressed dogs were placed behind the counter until they settled and chilled a bit (with owner doing the same as everyone else),time was given for questions to be asked, stuffed kongs were used to keep the dogs/pups entertained whilst the trainers were talking... I could go on endlessly, but they were amazing and so very different to today. These are the trainers I am trying to persuade to extend their classes......

Other classes I've attended have been much more obedience based, but again, smaller classes, more individual help and attention, handouts, explanations...etc etc.

The trouble is Rachel there just don't seem to be many classes like that around.