Good morning!

No, I do not agree that head collars cause pain unless they are introduced badly or are ill-fitting. I do agree that they cause pressure on the skin, much in the same way that if you put a single strap (try it with your lead) across the front of the chest and walk forward, there is some pressure on the skin of the chest. Does this cause pain? No, it creates a physical barrier (for want of a better word) that is flexible. I do have reservations on the type of collar that pulls the head down rather than to the side as I have seen it suggested that they may impede the airways, but, as I haven't tested the theory on this, for now I will reserve judgement.

Why do I personally think headcollar control (which is what I presume you are really talking about) is preferable to a prong collar/choke chain etc?

When using a head collar, there is a pressure on the nose when the dog pulls forward which causes the head to turn so the pressure is alleviated.

When using a prong collar, when there is pressure on the collar, the prongs close together and nip around the neck. By trial and error, the dog will learn what causes the nipping to stop

It is not recommended that the handler yank the lead to cause a headcollar to apply more pressure to the nose

It is recommended that the handler yank the lead to cause a pinch collar to produce more pinch on the neck

The headcollar was designed to guide the head, much as a horses head is guided using similar equipment

The prong collar was designed with the sole purpose of giving pain.

Although, in that ideal world, all dogs would be trained to walk on a loose lead, we don't live in an ideal world.

Some dogs are so powerful that without any control they are a danger both to themselves and to their owner. For this reason, we sometimes have to recommend equipment that, although far from ideal, is the least aversive of what is currently available while still giving a measure of control.

If I were in charge of that 'ideal world', I would assess each piece of equipment and first of all look at the original intention of the design. If that original intention was to allow the deliberate infliction of pain then I would ban it. Prong collars fall into this category.

And in my experience gives about the same level of control as a regular collar. I tried it and went back to the Halti simply because at least then I could control my dog while teaching him not to pull. Yes, I think a head collar can cause discomfort but unfortunately some of us need something to help us maintain control of our dog while training takes place.

Prong/pinch collars do hurt. I tried one on my arm to see. If it hurt my arm then it's sure as hell going to hurt a dogs throat! Funny how none of these aversive type collars work by causing pain isn't it?

The worst of it is, someone has sat down, designed and gone on to produce these things for the sole purpose of giving pain in varying degrees to dogs

This is a tricky thread to answer. My initial thought was "yes, ban them all!" but then it got me thinking - similar to what other people have said - in some situations where a dogs life is being endangered by its terribly eratic nature then training aids such as these are surely better than putting the dogs life in danger.

Personally, I would never advocate their use but my overall conclusion and answer to the original question posed has to be "no, I don't think they should be banned".

But then again.....

Ooooh its a tricky one. I keep going round in circles

I think, like anything else, everything has its place BUT I do not think prong collars or indeed any other training "aid" that causes pain should be readily accessible and certainly should never be sold in pet shops or readily online. Maybe they should only be able to be bought through your vets or something like that - on veterinary/behavioural advice?

I have no idea how that would ever be policed and of course it would never happen but thats my thoughts on it

yes i do think pinch/prong collars should be banned, I see no need to inflict pain to gain control.

I find it worrying that anyone would use one to gain control of a fear aggressive dog ( yes I do have one ) where as many aversives as possible should be removed, not added too, sounds very like a certain Mr Milan's technique to me.

I know.

And then in the more extreme sports world, there are the prong collars with the sharpened spikes.

The problem is, once peeps start using something designed to punish/cause pain/ stop a dog doing something, ethics and creativity both seem to take a flying leap out of the window, hand in hand.

I say Ban Them.

Wys
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To be honest, you won't find many reputable trainers or behaviourists using or recommending them - certainly not here in the UK.

It is often found that they make things worse.

Simple case in the Teaching Dogs mag a few years ago, think it was by Helen Philips, gundog lady. One of her Vizlas was behaving grumpily and aggressively and (long story short) it turned out that he was affected very negatively by a bit of metal sticking out in his collar.

Once it was off, he was back to his normal self.

Similarly Emma Parsons of Click to Calm has found that using a prong collar on her dog caused the situation (dog/dog aggression) to worsen.

Roger Mugford found a rottie and a weimaraner both behaving in a stressed manner due to prong collars and once removed, the dogs almost immediately started to behave better. Just using relatively well known names as examples here.

It's all about Classical Conditioning - which is loosely, about associating one thing with another. If a dog lunges and also gets pain, he will often associate the pain with the thing lunged at.

So you either use very very severe punishment of that spiky thing, which would be cruel and against our Animal welfare Act or discard it and use better things which we now know work, depending on the problem .

Wys
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I'd rather see more work channelled into educating people towards how dogs actually learn and promoting more modern training methods

I used one once.
But I didn`t know it.
I went to get a young GSD from a home where the woman couldn`t keep her. I was handed the dog and and took her back on the train.
I was stunned by the dog`s behaviour. She kept jumping up and down on the spot, eyes wide, exhibiting stress. I couldn`t understand it. Or the way she crouched when she walked.
Then I got home and took her collar and lead off.
I`d never seen one of these evil things before. I was mortified that I had subjected this poor creature to such pain. In fact I phoned the RSPCA to see if they were legal. I mean - have you seen them? Sharp spikes designed to stick in your dog`s throat? What twisted mind thought that up?
The collar went in the bin. It took a year for her to walk normally but she was a lovely girlie so I`m so glad I took her in.

I have seen one dog who was ok in a prong collar, and I chatted to the owner for a bit and he showed me the outer covers you can get so's they don't look like prong collars but I've also seen some who are as you describe, CandD - very stressed and jumpy.

I recall someone from years back who was writing about her stressed out BSD in her training class, who would not believe it was the prong collar that was upsetting her sensitive dog. I knew from the way she described everything that it was, as I talked to her in great detail and understand the breed, but she was not having any of it.

Just felt so sorry for the dog. I remember it even now, as it upset me

Wys
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