And so it begins....

Summer

What is it about sun that saps any common sense out of people?

Last week on Camber Sands I was walking with two other dogs. One of them and Cain were both muzzled and on a longline. The beach was huge and fairly empty, we were very easy to avoid. Yet they made a beeline straight for us, clearly bringing their dog to play. However when they got close enough to see two muzzled dogs do you think they went away? No they came closer! Saying "it's ok, he's friendly!" Grrrrr

Yesterday I took Cain up Richmond Park, managed to avoid other dogs, or keeping them at a sensible distance, for the whole walk. Got to the end and the biggest Great Dane I've ever seen in my life ran up to us. I shortened Cain's lead and wheeled about trying to march away. The owner stood 40 feet away weakly calling "Harveeeey". Do you think Harvey listened? Did he hell.

So pop quiz. A person with a large GSD looking dog, on a lead, desperately reels her dog in and drags her dog away from yours. You have calked your dog three times and been ignored. Do you

A) Engage your brain cell, realise your recall is worthless, move your legs and come and fetch your dog before sobething bad happens! Or

B) Not worry about the other dog owner who is struggling to get away as your dogs head is now up her dogs backside and continue to stand 40 feet away uselessly wailing "Harveeeeey".

Well apparently B I was so annoyed. I was clearly trying to avoid them yet they were massively unconcerned about WHY I might be doing this and did nothing to help. Even after both me and OH yelled "Come and get your dog!" so loudly that half the park turned around to see wgat was going on, they still didn't move! Stupid people. If Cain had bitten their dog, I'm sure that he would have been at fault. Finally their dog lost interest and sodded off of it's own accord but I marched almost over a hill before i lost him.

Now Cain isn't too bad with other dogs these days but I'm under strict instructions from his dog socialisation class to let let him interact with strange dogs for the time being. Living in London I can't possibly walk places to avoid all dogs, they ate everywhere. And I accept the odd one may dash over, but is it too much to expect the owner to come and get their dog if it's ignoring recall? It really ruined the end of a good walk.

And all the owner did was throw us dirty looks as if we had some specific problem with their dog. They didn't seem to see a problem as I'm sure their dog is friendly..... If one more person says "it's ok, he's friendly" I'm actually going to hit them in the face! Or perhaps I should just unclipped Cain and see what happens and when it all blows up I can say....."oh but you said it was ok as he's friendly....."

Sorry I don't mean to rant. But I just wish that when there are clear signs that a dog owners wants to be left alone (dog muzzled, short lead, dragging dog in opposite direction of intruding dog) that they would realise and actually make an effort to get their dog and go. Why do people who say "it's ok, he's friendly" seem to have the inability to understand that that doesn't actually make it ok?

Anyway I don't mean to rant, and I could cope with the odd incident. But I'm going to get this all summer long now

Rant away but I really do feel people just think '''well that person has the problem I don't mine is friendly'''

I don't mean that in a nasty way, but unless they themselves have experienced a dog with problems they really will not have any concept of your problems.I have to say Im really glad my lot stay together and ignore other dogs but I have seen this time and time again, and I have seen arguements over it and Im afraid I have seen people with 'friendly' dogs say ''well you shouldn't bring it out where there are friendly dogs or you know where there is going to be alot of dogs''

I hope you get a much better walk today hun, I know it is difficult, but Cain is making positive strides.
I don't mean to be picky but have your socialisation classes suggested away of dealing with this as I just thought by trying to keep them away (and this is just my opinion) isn't it going to give Cain the idea that 'something is wrong' when dogs approach by the way you are having to deal with it, is there away of just making him sit and stay until the other owner retrieves his dog, so that Cain gets the message that its ok...........sorry just thinking outloud

I get this all the time so know how annoying it is. I do have one advantage over you though and that is I can pick Cherry up if I think she is going to go for the other dog. I wouldn't recommend you try that with Cain!

I was walking on the heath with my 2 yesterday and we were on a narrow path and a lady was coming in the other direction with a Viszla and a Weimeraner so I picked Cherry up, she is fine with that and I explained to the owner that Cherry didn't like large dogs (in case she thought I was just scared her dogs were going to eat Cherry!)

I use my pet corrector spray to stop the other dog getting near Cherry if the owner is "miles" away and the dog not responding. It stops her getting stressed and she doesn't bother about the noise the pet corrector makes, she does seem to understand I am dealing with the situation. You will then probably have to deal with some narky owner catching up with their dog and having a go at you saying why are you spraying their dog but I really don't care about that. They should have their dog under control and if it doesn't recall train it better or keep it on a leash! Chery is clearly on a leash and it is for a reason. I don't want her to get to that stage where she goes into "head-butt" mode. I want her to keep calm and let me deal with things.

My husband sees things differently though and says if you have only had friendly dogs you don't see what the issue is with letting your dog approach other dogs. I don't agree with him though. I am fed-up with idiots (usually Staffy owners) letting their dogs charge up to Cherry from one side of the field when we are at the other, and thinking this is ok. Well it's not!

I am thinking of getting one of those bright yellow jackets that say Cherry has an eye-sight problem. I don't think it will make any difference but it's worth a try!

If all else fails Amanda we will have to get t-shirts made with "Beware of the owner" on!

Argh I hate it when people do that!

Zulu quite happily totters about with a tennis ball in his mouth off lead and when he has one doesnt actually pay the smallest bit of attention to another dog. But if we ever see a dog thats on lead approaching then I always call him back to me and either move out of the way or pop him back on lead to pass - because there is a chance the dog is on lead for a reason - i.e not liking other dogs, not good recall, etc etc. So I try and give the owner a bit of space for worst case scenario. Also if there were muzzled dogs chances are its because it might be DA and would certainly give it a bit of extra space, not let my dog go charging up! Safer for everyone!

I think the point is that the class want all of Cain's experiences to be positive experiences. When a dog is reactive through fear, or doesn't play with dogs correctly due to lack of socialisation at a younger age, they need time to learn how to interact with dogs properly. Good interactions with known dogs (Cain is definately improving with his interactions with Casper and Kiki) and with the specially chosen dogs at class will teach Cain how to interact normally, not a random dog down the beach/park - yes, they may be a dog with brilliant bodylanguage and have a great interaction with Cain, but then again, they may bowl right over (having already shown lack of training by the missing recall) and undo all the progress Amanda has achieved.
When a dog is still learning how to interact with dogs, it is going to push its limits very much to expect it to just sit there waiting for the other dog's owner to come over, especially if (like at the beach) the owners are just slowly strolling over with the dog bouncing around all over the place. It would be a bit like trying to get someone to overcome a phobia, say, of spiders, you're slowly desensitizing them to spiders at a distance, when all of a sudden a spider drops from the ceiling and lands nearby, and runs over to the person with the phobia. Depending on how much progress, the person might be able to stand there while you scoop up the spider, or they might still have the urge to bolt - and holding their arm preventing that natural response may put them several stages back in dealing with the phobia.

Tala is very friendly but was reactive in an excited way when she was on a line and other dogs came running up. A lot of the time she used to lunge and bark in frustration.

The best advice I had was from Mishflyn who told me to sit her between my legs in a reverse present until she calmed down. I found I had much more control and could feed her titbits which helped to calm and distract her. And the other dogs lost interest fairly quickly as there was no movement to encourage them.

Thankfully she is much better these days and is able to meet and greet calmly.

Thanks for your reply

I know it's not simple and I'll admit that before I had a dog with problems, I didn't give much thought to who Moon went running up to. But also if I'd seen a dog which was muzzled or on lead or the owner was actively trying to walk away, I would have had to common sense to extract my dog from the situation. And most people do. It just amazes me when people don't pick up on this stuff, and even when asked to remove the dog, don't!

It's not just aggression. For all they know Cain could be on lead after an operation for example so I wouldn't want him jumped on. Or perhaps he has something infectious like mange. So many reasons. I don't expect people to automatically know these problems but when they see a problem, they should react.

As for the "well if he isn't friendly, why is he around other dogs" arguement, I've had them myself I don't expect them to understand. But seriously, there is nowhere no doggy I can walk him, even the pavements are heaving during summer, so we just avoid and make do. But I can see why some people feel like that, but my dog needs walking, so we'll just have to agree to disagree!

The dog class have asked that, temporarily, we avoid unknown dogs so that Cain doesn't have a bad experience and have a set back. I can see your point, I can also see their point, however I'm desperate for this to work so I'm sticking to their rules. Generally we just keep a distance and avoid, it's only when a dog bolts right across a park that we have trouble. Otherwise I keep far enough away that Cain doesn't really notice them.

Sadly Cain doesn't yet have the self control or the security to be able to sit and wait while another dog is pestering him. He has a threadhold distance where he can, which is about 10 feet, once a dog has crossed that, he feels uncomfortable, focussed on them only and absolutely wouldn't sit while the intruder tries to sniff his bum The only thing we can do is walk away. It's not ideal, but it's not forever either. Once Cain has better skills, he can apply them in the real world.

The other thing that sort of irked me is that Richmond Park has wild deer and numerous very busy roads running through it. If they can't recall their dog, it's a dangerous place to have their dog off lead.

I understand that this is my problem and others don't understand it. I'm not saying that others are all at fault but I wish for just a little common sense when required. I know that not all dogs recall and I expect some dogs to run up. This itself isn't a problem as we walk away. The problem comes when we can't get away and the owner does nothing. I'm not expecting an ideal world at all. All I wish is that

1) If your dog fails recall repeatedly, come and get it
2) If I ask you politely to get your dog, it's for a reason. Please be respectful enough to comply.

I don't think I'm asking a huge amount?

Someone suggested that I should just shouts "He's got mange!" apparently that makes people move faster

Wow loads of people posted while I was replying to youngstevie! Hang on I'll go and read them....

Kerryowner, no I think picking up Cain is perhaps not the solution I do like the T shirt idea though!!!

Zuluandnaomi, that's a good attitude. I don't expect strangers to worry about me and my problems, but even if they are only thinking of THEIR OWN dogs safety, you'd think they make more of an effort to keep them away from an obviously problem dog - particularly when asked.

Karly, that's exactly it. For example, the Great Dane was the first dog Cain had met that was bigger than him! They may have got in wonderfully, but perhaps not. And I'm not about to gamble his progress on random dog number one in the park. I know marching him away from dogs is not ideal, but we do manage to completely avoid 90% of dogs so he isn't in that situation too frequently thankfully.

Tallasie thanks for that. I'll will try that, however of these dogs get too close and cross his threadhold there is no chance to get his focus and we have to walk away. I'm just reading Control Unleashed and I'm going to work on the Look At That game to try and get him more focussed around strange dogs.

Thank you for explaining that about your socialisation classes, I was interested as once owning a ex fighting bull breed I did have to have him in re-habilitation for some time and stooge dogs used.
Reah was different not only a DA but people too and had killed another dog, I was told from early on to sit and stay her with myself standing over her....so she was in effect inbetween my legs, for Reah this had a valued reaction as although she still gobbed off it transmitted to her that we were in 'wait' till the so numpty who's dog was annoying us got his/her dog.
The behaviourist ATT suggested not walking away as Reah had 1) a muzzle on and may felt restricted.... 2) if a dog wanted to could still chase, jump on or attack from behind.

So its interesting to see how things change All the best hun xxxxxxxx fingers crossed summer will not be that bad