He is Tenita and daddy was Arnpriors Spectre. Mainly New Zealand at the back end of the pedigree and 14% in bred. G grandparents on 2 sides are ISDS---Little Nell and Mr Chips

One sister is doing agility and does very well but is a strange little dog, she is fine in the home she is in but could have been difficult, brother is with same family but the daughter who has had dogs as long as Tassle and is as experienced as her. He has been difficult with people and has huge instinct to herd. One brother was rehomed at about a year due to various problems, we don't knbow where he went. The breeder kept one bitch to show and she went for judges so was spayed and 'retired'.

The worst was Celts lilac twin brother, Dylan. His pet owner found she couldn't walk him due to the herding/chasing cars. So she kept him on lead and I think he just went out of his head with frustration. She got a springer to keep him company and that didn't work so in the end I rang the owner of the bitch who does agility and she took him to rehome----she does a lot of rehoming. He was 18mths at the time and I happened to be staying for a week with her. He was aggressive and totally unpredictable. He once was running round the field and leapt at her face to bite her, he got her husband a couple of times, in the end they took the decision to pts. He had had several weeks of being free to run and I hope of enjoying himself.

I paid for a pm on his brain as I was worried it could be CL but it wasn't.

This is Celt (soppy one on the right) Chip in the middle and poor Dylan on the left

I still find it hard and at the back of my mind is that it could have been Celt that ended up so sadly, if they had just picked the other pup that colour. Silly I know.



Kizzy, the agility sister



Chip---lilac merle



Celt and Dylan

It is a shame you don't have the opportunity to give her lots of practical work, to see if it ironed out any problems. Siren probably doesn't have a lot of eye if she isn't on her belly all the time. But there is a difference between having a lot of eye and having a strong eye too. The strong dog can walk straight up to sheep and move them, a dog with a lot of eye will be too busy on its belly, transfixed by them.

How sad They sound a bit like some of the show bred dogs I have heard about before - a bit nutty and with no off switch Whoever bred these dogs - was it done primarily for the different colours?

Why does the breed need to "evolve" though? it doesn't. The joy of dog breeds is choice...if you want a racey dog to flush game, get a Spaniel or a HPR; why slim down the Labrador to the point where it doesn't even look like a Labrador?

Completely agree with you,

After all the Labrador/Springer was designed to do a job and presumably the job is still the same as it was when the dogs where in its infancy.

So why the need to "change" the standard/conformation.

How anyone can say the "working " is healthier than the "Show" type escapes me

how can dogs with bowed legs flat feet and so on, possibly be healthier than one bred to breed standard with correct conformation.

Not forgetting health issues, most breeder of working dogs do no health testing what so ever, so the "healthier" argument is flawed when health is the last thing on a breeder mind

Who said they were healthier?

It is weird thinking to say that the people who actually use the dogs for the job they were designed for have got it 'wrong' and the people who show them have it 'right'.

All dogs evolve according to use. The dogs that have been evolved recently to be cuddled ---pugs and pekes specifically have awful health problems.

rune

I don't think she knew she would get such a mix---she did look at what she was doing and on paper it should have been OK. I think colour was a consideration. She got two lilacs, a lilac merle, a blue merle, a red and white, a black and white and a red merle.

Daddy was blue merle, mum red and white. Both obviously carried red and dilute.

Off switch is so right, Celt has huge self control issues even with lots of training.

rune

- that statement makes me chuckle.

It seems as though we have come to the end of evolution of dogs!

I am hoping to be able to do something.

I am not sure what you could class Siren as then - she wants to be close..(something I have to work against) but they move so quick if she so much as takes a pace to far. Slowing her up is my biggest issue - but I think that is all due to the fact it is too novel for her.

See below!





Considering that when you look back at some of the most influential kennels of yesteryear, and their duel/working and show lines, all seem to have a resemblance to today's "show lines,

I think its "weird" to think that the show type are not closer to breed standard than the working.

Those who actually bred the dogs for said purpose obviously thought so.

I take it you are including EVERY Peke and Pug, in that generalisation