Apart from all Celts health problems (the lilac health tested one), there is no way he could do more than an hour working without becoming seriously uncomfortable and far too hot. He has a huge instinct to herd/chase which is what brought disaster to at least one of his litter. They were not pet dogs at all.

Siren is less exaggerated and has begun sheep work and would I think be fine working.

Always difficult to know unless you have actually done it, all well and good to say 'my dog could do' whatever it is but the reality is very different from mucking around once or twice a week with a few bits and pieces.

I think Etta could and would work a day in the field----but I will never know for sure unless we do it.

rune
rune

I can only speak for Siren, but I was amazed at how She took to it and her intensity she will not let up while sheep are there, she is constantly watching - when we were on the course in Cumbria - she spent 6 hours a day just focused on the sheep (along with another bitch who was there!).
But I think she is too 'strong' in her eye. When we started working on wild sheep, she was 1/2 a field away and making them move one step and they were moving, 2 steps they were fleeing.
I am not sure how to correct that - but possibly part of it comes down to how little practice she gets on sheep? Once a week was not really enough and sadly (at the moment at least) I do not have the resources to be able to take her

I think Celt would be a bit strong in the same way.

Siren's Gsire is Dual registered - but as far as I know, no others from her lines have been worked.

We had an ISDS bitch who was apparently no good for herding and so rehomed...but I am not sure if that was the working or if it was because she was pregnant and they did not want pups!

She has a hell of a lot less coat than most 'show' collies I have met, and actually, even less so than her litter mates. (She is just an odd one!)

Celt would be Ok in cold climate I think....

Scotland then?

rune

That's the one

I always assumed that a dog from a working line would be heathier than one from a show line as it's bred to do a job not for it's looks.
I to would get a working line dog.

What is Celt's breeding? Is he pure show lines? And what happened to his sibling?

And you are totally right - there is a world of difference between having a bit of a go once or twice a week on easy training sheep, and having to do "proper" work with large flocks in difficult conditions day after day. That is when a working collie is at his best, and I would always want to see a dog at home working before seeing him on a trial field - as that is when you get a real feel for the dog's strengths and weaknesses.

It is hard to say what problems you are having without seeing your dog work. What did Roy Goutte say about her? If a dog has a lot of eye it tends to be on its belly too much, watching the sheep, instead of driving them on or gathering up etc. Unfortunately most hobby dogs only get to practice on well dogged sheep, who are pretty much trained to the shepherd. A real test for any working dog is proper work (rather than lots of schooling iyswim) and it actually usually corrects any problems too.

As for being focused, my Rip will sit and concentrate on sheep all day, and looks totally focused. Yet, when worked on heavy sheep, he struggles to move them and is quite weak in that way unfortunately.

To be honest though, coat hasn't really a bearing on work ime. We have dogs here who have very rough and heavy coats and even though they may heat up quicker than their bare-skinned workmates they can still do the job without any bother

Roy wanted me to leave her with him for a short time - he was quite taken with her! She does not spend much time on her belly.....(in fact I have a very hard time getting her down there!) She was doing very well on the 'dogged' sheep - but when he changed them, it was a different story.

She has only worked a small flock (about 40) but really did not have enough experience for that. She would not deal well with the fact that they could not all move at the same pace - really wanted to hurry the slower ones.

I honestly think, if she was a farm dog she would have been in her element, with practice each day and settling down on them, her life would be (almost) fulfilled (I like to think I am a big part of her life!).

She gets something from working sheep that she does not get from anything else.