Thanks for the update. Pleased it's nothing too serious. I tend to agree with Mini though.....

Hi all.
Thanks again for all your support, suggestions and good wishes

I've been on the net for hours now looking for something that could equate to what Jake is experiencing, but am still none the wise

I agree Mini, it is very strange about the SUDDEN muscle wastage, if that's what it is...I would definately have noticed it's onset if it wasn't sudden coz I work from home and am with my boys nearly 24/7.

I did come across something called 'reserve sneezing' on the net (I have never heard of this but I had a dog previously that suffered daily with it and the vets came to no conclusion after 14yrs of looking into it!) It's when your dog looks like he's having trouble breating...your dog appears to be tensing up, and gasping for breath in a series of snorting noises and it is really distressing to watch. You'll find info on this by CLICKING HERE
The reason I've mentioned it is because Jake yesterday and today has had several of these episodes, and reverse sneezing, from what I have read, is highly regarded to occur in relation to an irritation/allergy, hence reinforcing other members thoughts of him having a bad reaction to something.

It's still very hard to think it's not something more serious though. His sight seems impared as he is having problems playing catch, something he was previously an expert at. Maybe this is just because of the tautness of the skin around his eyes causing him double vision or something...

He's also started take a real interest in his brother...by interest I mean he keeps trying to hump him! He went through a phase of this a while ago (they both had the snip when they were 6 mths old, and they are now 2yrs old). I am only documenting this as a behavioural change as it's so hard to know what might be related to his unknown condition and what isn't.

Anyway. Warm thanks again to all. I'll keep you all posted on his progress. Thanks for reading my rant

Hi J and W what you are referring to as 'reserve sneezing' is very common in dogs and will be easily recognized by those living in the countryside. When a dog get a foreign object up its nose ..often a grass seed or similar the dog will attempt to remove it by breathing rapidly, this makes a noise which is a cross between a dog sneezing and a horse braying the dog will do this repeatedly until the object is dislodged. Dogs also make this noise when they have a pollen allergy.

A similar wheezing is also produced by a condition called a 'Collapsing Trachea', Dogwebber Hevver's little Kingsley had this condition which also causes projectile vomiting .

Have you noticed any change in Jakes facial expression?has it improved any...thyroid problems can cause a change in expression but again that tends to be a gradual process.

Also is there any odema? When you press you finger anywhere into Jakes face does it leave an indentation?

Hi Mini

Thanks for clarifying about the reserve sneezing.
I can't see any change in his face at all. He doesn't look swollen, he still looks like someone has stuck staples behind his ears and lifted the skin of his face so the whites of this eyes show.
I'm keeping a very close eye on him. I am just really concerned he has got something that is slow to develop, and by the time he is diagnosed is might be too late.
He just had another 'reverse sneeze' attack. At least I think that's what he's having. Again, I can't help but think is it a real breathing problem and something related to the rest of his mysterious and recent changes.
It's so difficult to define what is normal, and what is acceptable/pure coincidence.
On a much lighter note, his bladder problem seemed to disappear within 24hrs (but again, it's a really sudden change). I'm so concerned for him, and of course for his brother. If it is a genetic problem, then Woody will need to be at least tested, but as yet there's nothing to test for, except for the hypothyroidism.

It's so frustrating. We left the vets in a really hopeful vibe, but then Jake goes and does something else he has never done before and so we start worrying again!

I'm off now to get the Sunday roast on. I'll keep in touch and deeply appreciate all your help and wisdom. Hopefully the whole thing really is just a one-off reaction to something

PS I can't check the odema question at the moment as he's currently resting in his crate, so I'll update you later on that one

I would ask the vet to do an allergy test as a friend of mine had the same problem with her dog and it turned out to be an allergy to grass seeds and dust mites in the house, so it may be something as simple as that.

Hi Sweetmimi, and thanks so much for your input.

It does seem to be the general consensus here that Jake has had a reaction to something.
Here's something else that does not tally at all with hypothryoidism from what I have read about it - one of the symptoms is that the dog gains weight, where as Jake used to have puppy fat but is now actually rather slim (the vet actually requested to weigh him on our last visit, but said he was about right for his age). Both Jake and his brother Woody are slim in the respect that you can just about see their ribs if the light is shining on them, e.g. you can see the outline of their ribs like a little rippling wave. Woody is definately and always has been slimmer than Jake, but as I said, Jake has lost weight compared to his pre 1.5 yr weight.

I'll phone the vet tomorrow and ask if we can have allergy tests done whilst we're waiting for this 4wk period before the hypthyrodism test, which may not even be relevant.
More confusion, more worry, more expense. My partner and I will be nervous (and broke!) wrecks before too long

Just thought I'd report more very strange but subtle behavioural changes in Jake today...

He stops mid-play to hump his brother (front and/or back!)
Next door have a dog and my two boys have always been happy to jump at the fence and say hello to him with waggy tails...today Jake jumped up and I saw him snapping at the air and wrinkling his nose/semi-snarling.

I'm really worried about this extremely uncharacteristic yet seemingly mild aggressive behaviour. I have phoned my vet for advice and they said to keep and eye on him and note down unusual behaviour, and if I am really concerned to bring him in. I told her already that I was really concerned, but again she said to keep an eye on him and make an appointment if it seemed serious...what do I have to do, wait until he attacks his brother???

I'm so worried to even let him in the garden incase he 'goes' for next doors dog and or/his brother. What is it going to take for the vet to realise that I KNOW what is usual and what isn't usual behaviour!!??

Sorry to rant again, but I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall when I phone the vet. I understand they have hundreds of cases, but I have two dogs who I dearly love and I may be putting them BOTH at risk here.

I have read that sudden aggression can be associated with thyroid problems, so I guess I have to sit tight, and perhaps push the testing forward if this continues.

Yet another concern is that the anti-biotic course he is on (for a bladder infection that mysteriously disappeared after just 24hrs!!) may actually be doing his unknown condition more harm than good.

Hi Jand W I would keep a log of dates/times /unusual behaviour going right back to the start, including the limp episode and medication given.

Some of the behaviour does sound as if it could be hormonal thyroid based and it will be interesting to see the results of the thyroid tests.

I did wonder if there was some connection between the drugs originally given for the limp (an unusual reaction ?) and the change in behaviour.

Hi Mini
Every time Jake has had medication and then had some weird symptom and/or behaviour, I phone the vets to make an appt and the first thing I have always asked is 'could the medication from the previous visit have caused a reaction or does it have any side effects'. The answer has always been 'highly unlikely'.

I don't exactly have a huge amount of faith in my vet surgery right now, and the above statement still leaves a small possibility that it IS the previous medication which is the cause.

It's something I'll jot down in order to mention again when at next at the surgery.

I'll have written a novel on the subject by the time we get to the vets at this rate

Hi Woody one could speculate endlessly about Jake and still be wrong The body as we know is a finely balanced machine running with the assistance of various chemical substances, adding other substances can in some cases have adverse effects/allergic reactions in a minority of dogs(or humans),this applies to drugs as well as other outside allergens.

Also disorders of the hypothalamus/ pituitary /thyroid Gland can cause all sorts of strange conditions too...it is very difficult to work out what is wrong with Jake when he has some symptoms associated with various conditions but not others.

All this must be very upsetting for you, I hope the vet comes up with a diagnosis soon. Is Jake insured? You can ask your vet for a referral to one of the RVC small animal hospitals attached to the universities, but this can be very expensive .

I see you are in Kent? Your nearest would be RVC The University of London then I guess ...remember referral it is an option if things don't improve and your vet is no help ...
http://www.rvc.ac.uk/Hospitals/QMH/Referrals/Index.cfm

http://www.rvc.ac.uk/Hospitals/Index.cfm