I might feed in position but a click is the end---and usually the feeding is for a relaxed down when I am out and about----in cafe's or garage waiting rooms etc.

rune

Hi,
Dogs learn read human patterns of behaviour so very quickly so I suggest that you try and bit a bit more unpredictable.

Pop his leash on at meal times and (under supervision) let him walk around with it attched.

Do lot of very short homework sessions. I always tell my students to practice one exercise only whilst they are boiling the kettle then stop, or when there is an ad on TV - so rather lots of one minute sessions than a boring 20 minute drudge!

All learning should be fun - but remember that you should be the one setting the examples. Calm owner = calm dog!

I dont reallly like the method of pushing hips down to ensure a "sit" or "wait" or the dog will never learn to do this for himself.

First you will need to get the dog to understand that he has to hold a position - but without you having to physically force or correct him.

Often the easiest way to do this is to have him on the "correct" side - ask for a "sit" then pop a treat for the "sit", then show him with a slow flat hand that you hand is empty and with lots of gentle cues - "sit - stay" and repeat. remove your hand - stand still for a second then pause - then put your hand in your pocket, take out a treat - give it to him and then imediately repeat until he understands that he doesnt get his treat (which only comes out of your pocket for this exercise) unless he holds the position. As you progress the time between the reward and the command is lenghthend bit by bit - all the time slowly moving the goal posts! Only reward sucesses dont reprimand for mistakes - just ignore them. Success brings the dog rewards. Mistakes are ignored so are less likely to be repeated.

Over a period of time you will be able to increase the duration of the time he is holding the position next to you.

Once he copes with that sitting next to you, (for at least 30 seconds) you would then (slowly breaking the exercise up into tiny pieces/ or sections) move one foot in front of you (but dont turn and face him yet - just one foot not two).

Repeat as before so that you are sure pup understands, then the next step is to move altrernate each foot one at a time- forward and back - getting him used to the idea that you can start to move but he has to stay still (you are still not turning or facing him just putting one foot forward then the other) . Then move onto one step forward - and half turning to face him. Then two feet but now turn and face him - but dont step away yet. habituated and you have the duration (at least 30 seconds) then only would you start to work on the distance, and this is also done inititally one step at a time.

In the early stages it is the duration of the "wait" or "stay" that is important, once you have mastered getting the pup to hold a position without assistence then the distance is easy to gradually introduce.

Another tip for calmer walks - play ball in the garden for 10 minutes - then have a cup of tea, then go for the walk. Gets the "tickle" out of their feet and makes for a calmer walk.

Good luck and let us know how you get on!
Regards
Lou SA

I click for the actual behaviour then reward. I treat the clicker as a marker for 'good' and then reward will follow.

Do you mean after that when building up time/duration?

Yes----I might do a few minutes stay and click at the end then reward. What I wouldn't do is click and reward and expect the dog to hold position----which is what I thought was suggested?

rune

Oh, I thought Ben Mcfuz was saying that she clicks repeatedly while the dog is in position and for holding the position, (to reinforce the position and the not moving) then uses the release to allow the dog to move, which may be a self fulfilling action so no click?

I'm not saying there is a right or a wrong here, just asking

Most of us clicker trainers who compete NEVER use the clicker in training stays...........

The reason?

Because of what the clicker represents, and dogs have been accidentally and deliberately sabotaged by people using clickers in the vicinity!

So how do we train it? by reinforcing the position by feeding.

As I have said before, you have to train a position

duration
distraction
distance
difficulty

so you will ALWAYS start by ensuring a dog will remain in the required position for the required amount of time NEXT to you.

When that is done and you want to add a variable, ie distraction, you back to a couple of seconds as say you hop, or whistle, or jump, or wave a toy.

So I feed whilst in position, varying the time betwen feeds from 1/5/3/7/1 seconds so the dog has no reason to move.

etc etc

Thats how I was taught to teach a stay and I never used a clicker though I never actually thought about why NOT to use one for that, apart from my own dog....now I know why, thanks!

We did it next to, circling the dog, circle wider, walk away and back then walk out the room, walk out and back while all the dogs in a stay etc then when it went outdoors they had to stay whilst the 'baby' puppies were training and the big dogs around and we went behind a caravan then waited a while then out....I was quite surprised the very first outdoor one that he didnt move but that must be why he just stayed.....

Yup thats what I do
If Im shaping in position - like on a mat then I click and chuck the treat so they reset and move again, but once they are in a position I want I click several times and reward in position
Basically I like the idea that they only move on the release command and dont release on the click

I haven't found it a problem but I do both---reward at intervals and click at the end.

rune