Well as you so aptly point out its been a long thread. I cannot remember typing if my cat went into your dogs garden, if i remember correctly (im sure someone will correct me if im wrong ) i said -

If a dog killed my cat i would go to the relevant authorities. I really do not know where this biz of cats being killed in gardens has come from.*

The only thing i can think of is the tv programme i saw & its sort of got mixed up with what i originally typed

I would have to go right back on my posts which on this iPhone would take forever

This is another reason i dont want to give an opinion - if its not something i typed in the first place!

It was actually a hypothetical remark (altho i didnt say that at the time, i can see now i should have) as our kittens dont go out

Ive found my original post and I DID NOT say anything about cats being in dogs gardens - its on page 15 at the end of the post - quote as below

Pg 15

If a neighbours dog killed one of our cats i would be absolutely furious. I would report that dog to the dog warden as being dangerously out of control -

I live with a dog with a high prey drive, and he has killed prey animals before, and it is not something that has been encouraged, and every time it's happened there has been nothing I could of done about it. Rabbit ran out of hedge, while we were walking down a lane, he was on lead, and it literally ran at him, it was over very quickly, before I had time to react Rabbits the other side of the hedge, and I didn't realise, and he ran through a hedge with barbed wire to get to it Several squirrels died when we lived in our old house, we even seperated the dogs from the woods that we lived on the edge of, by building a high fenced enclosure inside the garden/woods, but sadly a few squirrels did get in

Cats that aren't ours, I wouldn't trust him, and would hate for a strange cat to wander into our garden. He does live with 2 cats, and has never given me any reason to suspect he would harm them, but I never take the risk, if I am out or asleep, dogs and cats are always separated , through several doors and dog gates. I am lucky neither of my cats run from the dogs, they will stand their ground if they have to, or wander away, they basically ignore him

My cats aren't allowed out of my garden, for their own safety, and I've had a cat disappear in the past, and the not knowing was awful.

I always check the garden first for snakes, and furries before they are let out, and tend to watch them when they are in the garden, in case something wandered in while they are outside. He obviously, isn't offlead these days unless there are most definitely nothing fluffy about, he's a work in progress, training is on going, it's a case of managing the drive and also using it in training.

He is fantastic with all dogs, from teeny ones, to massive ones though.

On the point of people contacting "authority" may I just clear something up once and for all. (Husband is an ex Plod and several of our friends are also Plods, so this is currently as things stand):-

Cats are classed as Wild animals due to many of them roaming freely wherever, and whenever they please. This means that nobody is obliged to report any unfortunate running over of a cat in a car (although most people would do their best to find the owner I think) - nobody is obliged to report their dog attacking a cat in the dog's garden, etc. etc. It also works the other way in that cat owners cannot be reported or held responsible for what their cat does when away from home. (Just imagine the mountains of paperwork for the police if this was not the case, given the dreadful toll on the roads on a weekly basis). The only time that a cat owner will gain the interest of the Authorities - RSPCA and possibly Police - is if there is concrete proof of genuine deliberate cruelty being inflicted on the cat, i.e. if someone set their dog on it rather than it being an unfortunate accident.

I think someone then asked what if the cat had wandered into someones garden and got killed by their dog, would you still class the dog as being dangerously out of control. I think that's how we got started on cats being in dogs gardens but I may be mistaken and I'm not reading the whole thread to find out I'm afraid

Everyone is lost!!

Nothing new for me, I can get lost walking down a straight corridor

Neither am i, it was bad enough finding this one never mind someone elses.

Wow what a thread...

Firstly, i didnt reply to Zoe's thread due to not having my laptop (i have it now) and its blooming annoying to post while using my mobile! So, although i was reading the thread i didnt post... i also thought it was best to stay out of it. Now, i know some of the posts were... well, blunt, and maybe could have been written in an more sympathetic way, those posters are still entitled to their opinion... i think it is often a fine line on dogsey, between being honest and expressing your opinion... and coming across critical and upsetting people. Its something i have learnt on Dogsey, that no matter what, people will always have opinions they want to express and they will do that in whatever way they deem to be appropriate (which isnt the same for everyone). I have learnt to toughen my skin on here, and that if i post certain things i will face stick from certain people. The thing i personally found the worst thing about that thread, was that poor dear Bessie seemed to be completely forgotten about by most people... At the end of the day, SHE was the victim in all of this... and she died in a horrific way. I wasnt going to mention Zoe's thread, but Rune made a point on mentioning it in the OP so i think that makes it relevant.

Re. dogs killing other animals - I think this is just instinct for a lot of dogs and IMO, is completely different to killing another dog. Jake has killed a rabbit, and if i am totally honest, i was horrified. When he was a pup, he didnt have the slightest interest in rabbits (we have loads of them in the park next to my house) and then gradually as he got older, i started to notice it and it just got stronger and stronger. He hasnt killed one since, and after it happened i really thought about it and understood it is just his instinct... it was the first time i had ever seen a dog kill a rabbit (in the flesh). Jake hasnt caught another since, and he does still chase them. I have more control over him though, and will sometimes call him away (he isnt 100% reliable though)... I would prefer he didnt want to chase them, but it is his instinct... and tbh, I think its good to watch dogs do what they were bred to do (and do it instinctively)... even if Jake himself wasnt bred for something specific although, i dont want him to catch anything! He will chase rabbits, squirrels and birds.

He has never chased a cat, but he has never had the chance to. He does see them when he is onlead, and shows interest but he never really reacts to them... he actually acts the same as if he were to see a dog. The cats never come in the garden now (they did before I got Jake, and used to come in the house in the summer!) but there is a big ginger one who likes to walk up and down the fence on my neighbours side, but Jake just sits and watches him... I honestly dont know what he would do if one came in the garden... his reactions are very different to if he sees a rabbit etc, but then seeing his chase/prey instinct i would be surprised if he wasnt bothered by the cats. If a cat did enter our garden though, and Jake caught and killed the cat, then I wouldnt blame Jake. I would feel horrible for both cat and owner, but its my garden... so neither mine or Jakes fault.

Re. killing another dog. I dont know what i would do. I know what i think i would do, but whether or not i would actually being in the situation, I'm not sure. If a dog of mine killed another dog for no apparent reason (with health reasons eliminated) and had shown no previous signs of DA and i still had other dogs in the house, then i think i would PTS. I wouldnt trust the dog, and i think it would be in the best interest of the other dogs still in the house... its just too big a risk. If the dog would then be an only dog, then i would see it differently and would probably keep the dog... i would hate what the dog did, but i would hope my love for the dog would help me trust them again, and regain our relationship... i think that takes time though, coz i think it is natural to have bad feelings towards the dog while the grief is still raw... afterall, they would have killed a dog i loved...

If i had multiple dogs, and one of which was dog aggressive, then if they killed another of my dogs then i wouldnt PTS. It would be 100% my fault coz i was aware of the situation, and what the dog was capable of. I would obviously keep them seperated btw, but things happen.

I also think it depends who instigated the attack, and the severity (apart from the fact is was fatal). A dog could, like has been mentioned, catch the wrong place and the result is a dead dog... or, it could be more brutal with the other dog being ripped to shreads or throat ripped out etc... which sound like they have gone in for the kill...

I dont think it is a black and white answer, and so many circumstances would depend on what my reaction would be to it. I know people have talked about humanising dogs (antro-whatever ) and i think people do with their reasoning for why a dog did what it did, but like dogs are dogs, we are people, and people react in the way that is right for us. I would maybe understand why a dog in its viewpoint did what it did, but that doesnt mean it is easy for us humans to accept... Im not sure if that has made much sense, but i know what i mean Anyway, that is JMO.

Mish - In answer to your question, yes i would want that dog PTS.

Dawn - i love those pics you posted! Especially the second pic, it is gorgeous!

Really really good post lozzi, really balanced & well thought out!

Fab!