Noooooooooooooo LOL I disagreeeeeeeeee

ok, you intrigue me.

if you odnt mind, not beinf mena here.

offer an alternative for the dogs, adressing the problems as done in the show.

no offnce here but to disagree is fine, but t ooffer a working alternativeis better and useful for us all.

please

Exactly, and that dog had had NO training, got over excited, agressive etc - what else could be done in a week?

Hi All, Just wanted to say hi as I am a newbie. You all look like a great bunch, so please be gentle...... I am really enjoying Dog Borstal, opens my eyes to how some people spoil their pets and wonder why they are like they are!! I thought Louis was a nutter, I really felt for the two guys Frank & Spencer.

Well my view would be, firstly a thorough vet check, then:

I'd assess the dog and see how safely/closely I could handle it, whether it might need a muzzle etc. Some dogs deemed aggressive are just OTT and with careful confident handling wouldn't need a muzzle or anything . I'd use all sorts of techniques - body language a la Turid Rugaas, maybe some Ttouch, I'd find out what really floated that dog's boat. I may use a DAP, I'd get the dog to work for what it really wanted. I'd show the owners how to train the main commands i consider important for good pet dogs - Down, Sit, Stay, Wait, Off, (not to be confused with Down! ), Recall, Leave it graduating hopefully to a chase recall. I'd show them how to train an alternative strong behaviour to the problem one.

I'd use mainly clicker, positive reinforcement, with some negative punishment (which is not physical punishment but is the removal of toys, company, or something like that, at very specially judged times).

The latter gives a consequence but does no harm - many of us now feel the dog trainer needs a kind of equivalent of the hippocratic oath, "do no harm" There can be too much fallout from aversives ranging from mild (dog avoids owner, dog becomes passive and quiet and is deemed well trained) to strong (dog becomes aggressive to owner/associates another dog with aversive etc).

I concentrate mainly on good training and on the whole relationship, plus check out diet, exercise, mental and physical stimulation, stress levels (ie what is the environemnt like that the dog lives in) and so on and so on (well you did ask , sorry if it's rather long... ).

I'd use an aversive as a very last resort but I doubt this would be necessary . An aversive could range from a loud yell to a spray collar.

I'd try to get the owners to do something with their dog - so many dogs are bored out of their minds and are expected to behave, I believe in owners taking time to teach stuff - fun searches, tracking, HTM, anything really esp. if it utilises the innate drives of the particular d og.

That's kind of a rough plan, you do have to think on your feet a bit and also be prepared to be flexible etc ....

Ceiron and Hevvur, have hopefully addressed your thoughts in my post to ElaiRs bearing in mind each dog is different with different problems.

thanks, can see your point but it sitn a wek long thing though is it.

thats kinda my point.

if they worked with them for longer then yes.

but in a week i dont feel they could deleiver the right insturction or ideals.

completely agree with Wysiwyg. dont see the need for alpha rollovers and punishment.

personally i dont think that alpha rollover had any lasting effect on the dog... ie the dog wasnt less aggressive because of it.

i think in a week, just as much progress could have been made using positive reinforcement

Oh I see, you mean because of it only being one week.

Well, I believe the dogs got a vet check anyway, and that's imperative. If you put the peeps ina nice B and B they would feel more like working and then you'd maybe have more time.

Basic stuff can be taught in the week fairly easily, and i'd expect normally to see a good improvement in a week.For instance, the use of the bottle for teaching Leave - it's slower i think than the clicker method which ends up witha happy dog looking to you for its next command.

its not the progress amde that i am questioning in the time, its he ability to continue this and then voercome any other problems arising, these are trained dog people and the woenrs arent so i wouldnt feel comfortable starting the training and relying on them to continue it to the extent it nees be.

with the emthods used it sets up al lthe foundations and very little expertise is needed form th owners to sustain it,

thats my opinion anyhows


p.s. yes the dogs all got a vet check form what i gather, if not then its pointless as it may not just be a behavioral issue.