|
Location: Cardiff, UK
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,033
|
05-06-2009, 03:30 PM
Because this "elderly pitbull" is very fit and healthy, and showing far too much interest in lethal snakes ! As we now know, Daddy et al are taken out into S California where snakes are prevalent and therefore the likelihood of death was extremely high.
How has he survived so far then if he has a interest in snakes?
Its all dodgy, CM never adds up to me!!!!!
|
|
Location: Usually in a muddy field somewhere
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 20,145
|
05-06-2009, 03:33 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher 
Mish, the idea of the e-collar is not to "fry" or "microwave", but to have it on the lowest setting possible so it is little more than a buzz. It is only turned up by gradual degrees if absolutely necessary.
This is what I have gathered, I don't myself have any experience of such things.
) to do his utmost to have that snake, I can't see that a little buzz would have any effect or be noticed.
|
|
|
|
Location: Mo usa
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 42
|
05-06-2009, 03:45 PM
How has he survived so far then if he has a interest in snakes?
Its all dodgy, CM never adds up to me!!!!![/QUOTE]
LUCK is the only way he has survived the snakes here are lethal if they get bitten they are dead,cant say oh well that'll teach him wont do that again.
we lost a jack to a rattler not funny
|
|
|
|
Location: East Midlands, UK
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,775
|
05-06-2009, 03:49 PM
Originally Posted by mishflynn
Originally Posted by Gnasher
Because this "elderly pitbull" is very fit and healthy, and showing far too much interest in lethal snakes ! As we now know, Daddy et al are taken out into S California where snakes are prevalent and therefore the likelihood of death was extremely high.
How has he survived so far then if he has a interest in snakes?
Its all dodgy, CM never adds up to me!!!!!
|
|
|
|
Location: Mo usa
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 42
|
05-06-2009, 03:51 PM
Remeber most trainers will train the human to train the dog, a good trainer will educate the human in the way to deal with any given problem.
and at the start of every show cesar says"I train humans"
Now correct me if I am wrong Daddy and all his other dogs live in a compound in LA...do you get Rattle snakes in inner cities
What chance in a million , will his dogs have of coming into contact with killer snakes.
:[/QUOTE]
we lived in the city of raleigh north carolina when our Jack was killed by 2 rattlers,he killed them both while they were killing him
|
|
|
|
Location: East Midlands, UK
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,775
|
05-06-2009, 03:54 PM
Originally Posted by weim1
[
How has he survived so far then if he has a interest in snakes?
Its all dodgy, CM never adds up to me!!!!!
we lost a jack to a rattler not funny
[/QUOTE]Again, a quote from the horses mouth as it were ! Weim, guys like you, Promethean and the person who I was talking to this morning whose name I forget ... began with S ... all live in the States. We haven't heard Promethean's comments, but you and the person beginning with S both are in agreement that snakes ARE a big problem in the States. And both of you seem to be in agreement with Cesar's use of an e-collar to deal with the danger.
Drastic measures to hopefully prevent the death of a beloved pet ... seems reasonable to me
|
|
|
|
Location: Mo usa
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 42
|
05-06-2009, 03:58 PM
Drastic measures to hopefully prevent the death of a beloved pet ... seems reasonable to me
[/QUOTE]absolutley gnasher my dog died a horrible,painfull death and broke alot of hearts if a couple of shocks would have avoided that,it would have been well worth itxx
|
|
|
|
Location: East Midlands, UK
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,775
|
05-06-2009, 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by Billy1111
Hey Gnasher , great post , will no doubt create passionate resplies in my case my answer would be no i can not find a justification.
In a life and death situation , then yes of course you should do whatever it takes. However i have not found a situation that would make this a reasonable choice.
you argument about snakes is flawed from the simple case not all snakes rattle?
rattle snakes i think are very doscile snakes and rattle simply to warn hence the ratlle before stricking.
Have you noticed the reactiona dog has to hot air ballons as they make that sush noise . It is this noise ceasar uses . My belief is the noise of a ballon stimulates a inner sense within the dogs the figh or flee behaviour.
So dogs have a natural ability to be afraid of snakes?? i think they makes ia shh noise as there tounges come from there mouth ??
Remember dogs hearing in far better than ours.maybe it is just the rattle snake they did not know how to respond to as it rattles?
Hope this post makes sense.also to backup my shh theroy the animal pet trainning company now sell a shh thing that distracts dogs immeadiately from what they were doing , it has a powerfull response?? a shh in a can
the traiing method was perhaps slightly floored and done perhaps to make good t.v
don't watch much of any of these programmes sorry. i am not trying to be negetive afetr all he was probably only trying to help ,the dogs and that is always a good thing. many thanks for the question xxx
, and it could be that it is this that really winds up the dogs ! It certainly caused Daddy to turn from his normal, placid obedient self to being, for him, quite lively !! 
I personally find the "ssh" noise very effective on Tai. I use it when he is starting to pull forward to much on the lead. I use the sharper "tsst", which is more like the hiss of a snake, when he is being naughtier than just pulling on his lead ! Next level up from that is an "oi" !
Thanks for your kind comments.
|
|
|
Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
|
05-06-2009, 04:01 PM
Mish, the idea of the e-collar is not to "fry" or "microwave", but to have it on the lowest setting possible so it is little more than a buzz. It is only turned up by gradual degrees if absolutely necessary.
This is what I have gathered, I don't myself have any experience of such things
Originally Posted by Lucky Star
I believe they do have to investigate different settings when training the dog to respond to the collar in order to find the level the dog responds to and then I assume they would need to repeatedly use it during training, just as you would clicker or treat training. I wonder, too, if different settings are used for different situations? Say, if a dog was of a mindset to be determined and stubborn enough (wonder who I have in mind
) to do his utmost to have that snake, I can't see that a little buzz would have any effect or be noticed.
I saw a trainer using one a few yrs ago on different dogs, for all manner of problems..
Like Lucky Star says they (trainer) will try different settings.. it will also depend on the fixation of said dogs, as to how high the stumulus needs to be .
A dog that is has a high prey drive, may need to be zapped on a high t level to interrupt their fixation ... believe me, I have seem dogs jump in pain , when the e.collar is used on them, also seen them so fixed on their prey , that they will be immune to the stimulus...
Some may only need a very low setting or will only need to have the vibration pressed.
The trouble with these collars when used incorrectly,can cause harm and injury to the dog, and it is no good saying....well they should only be in the hands of professionals... because they are freely available on the open market for any one who is inclined to use them.
I have also seen dogs with neck burns from the over use of these collars..
They will as with most things be abused, and to me, that is enough of a reason to ban them.
What goes on in the US is irrelevant to justifying there use here.
We dont have rattlesnakes, or highly venomous indigenous shakes... the only venomous snake we have is the Adder, and if treated is not life threatening..
They also only populate a very small percentage of the country, and most dogs will not come into contact with one in his lifetime,
The thread was tittled=
Can there ever be justification for the use of e.collars...
But it seems to have turned into justification on using them to save your dogs life from a rattle snake bite
And as the majority of the members here on Dogsey will never encouter one, or need to use such a tool to protect ones dog from one... then the argument is lost/
I know some will feel the use of these tools can work with sheep chasing, but for me, if you have a dog who is inclined to chase sheep, keep it on a lead
And unless you live on the land and have working sheep dogs, EVERYONE should be obeying the Country Code when walking anywhere near livestock.
Keep dogs on leads round livestock and wild life in breeding season!!!!!!!!
there no point having your dog wearing a e.collar, of lead walking through some farmers field... YOU many know he is not going to chase said livestock, the farmer does not... and will be within his rights to shoot your dog.
Not much concellation to you , knowing he was wearing an e.collar
|
|
|
|
Location: Mo usa
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 42
|
05-06-2009, 04:05 PM
if snakes were a danger and you were able to get hold of one for e collar training then you are able to spend the time to train an alternative behaviour
it is the manner of shocking from afar that i find cowerdly, i dont train with punishments at all but if i did i wouldnt hide behind a remote control
the idea is the dog associates the pain with the snake and not with you,or it would be a waste of time
|
|