Most vibrate collars are not adjustable, so you don't have the capacity to use it at the dogs working level ect.

I have no interest in appearing in a video were you turn the collar up to full and blast me with it while I do nothing but comment its mildly uncomfortable, you would probably accuse me of using a modified/broken collar et.

Adam

How about if someone else provides the collar? You could, of course, check it first to make sure it's not been tampered with.

That's OK Adam.... we'll get one of those makes that don't have 127 levels. In the interests of humane training, of course.

So what you're saying re Vibrating collars, is: they don't have enough levels, so you can't blast a dog if you need to?

Gosh all those poor deaf dogs really don't know what they're missing, do they!

They don't have enough levels so you end up using it at one level and the dog may find that overwhelming or may not, e collars have lots of levels so your always at just the right level.

Adam

Let's clear this up once and for all because I really do hate liars and deceivers.

"Strange APBC wants to ban collars, strange because in Aug 2009 one of its members, Professor Mills of Lincoln University, was confronted by ECMA and as a result he then had to contact DEFRA and tell them he did not know enough about collars to continue a study contract for DEFRA, so if APBCs’ most eminent member knew nothing about collars I doubt any of them know anything, in which case they can have no opinion on them".

Are you happy for me to send the above statement to the contacts you mention at DEFRA and also to Professor Mills to ask for the validity of the statement in respect of the Government funded study? I cannot do so without permission as I am unsure of internet copyrite etiquette

Ohhh I get it! You don't want to volunteer to wear one because they go up to too many levels, but you're happy to use one like that on a dog, in case the lower levels aren't enough, so you can zap it to Kingdom Come?

How strange that so many people find the levels on vibrating collars to be more than enough for deaf dogs, but you prefer something with a bit more Ooomph. I bet you feel like the Terminator when you've got that remote in your hand.

Another question for you Adam. I can find no reference to a Dr John Cooper at Lincoln University. Is it Jonathan Cooper you are referring to?

No I'd supply the collar.

Working level LOL---you mean the point at which it causes pain!

rune

You can just direct them to the thread---that'll cover it.

You could also direct them to other statements AP has made. I'll help you reference them.

That should help the case against shock collars.

rune

To be honest, I'd much rather put this to bed here, but if Adam is persistent in continuing this lie, I have no problem in contacting the relevant parties to confirm or deny this statement.

Regardless of the twisting and turning done since, the statement is quite clear in its assertion that Danny told them he couldn't continue the study contract (not a section of it, but the study) and this cannot be true

If it did turn out to be true, of course I would state on the same forum and on the same thread that I was mistaken. It's what decent people do