Thanks for all the advice so far.

As i said before, im not a great believer in the pack theory involving humans. I have the respect of my dogs, i dont feel the need to 'dominate' them.
I see dominance type behaviours with all 3 of my dogs and i do believe they each have their own 'standing' within the household.
Sadie is the eldest, biggest, and i believe is the most dominant of the household. I have always fed her first, given her bones/toys/treats first, I havent really consciously done this because of the 'ranking order' but because i just do it in order of age.

As ripley is now coming up to two years, she is pretty much fully mature (though it should be said, she is very immature in mind).
One thing I have noticed since watching their behaviours more, is that when growling, ripley always freezes- sadie usually ignores her but the times that sadie does respond, it always ends up with sadie standing above her (no noise or growl, though her body language is very threatening) until ripley backs down, it always ends up with ripley shoving her head in sadies mouth and licking her constantly, which i know is a submissive sign.

I'm also wondering whether it could have anything to do with my 11 month old male..maybe his presence could be adding to the friction? (though he is never anywhere near them when things happen, and if he is he makes a run for it! )

So do you believe there is no such thing as an alpha dog/pack leader anymore?

Actually John Fisher didnt deny the idea of a human being a pack leader as being useful for communicating with dogs.

But this all off topic. This lady is after some advice for her two bitches, and if you can offer a solution, go ahead.

Not sure how useful this is, but having 4 bitches here and 1 male, I thought it sounded to me typical of a 2 year old (sorry just my opinion)
Pushing the boundries with the older female to see if she can gain top dog position.

We had this with Skye when Tess had been here a few months, Reah being the eldest/top dog and the one not to stand ceremony soon grumbled at Skye, it lasted a few weeks and Skye has now settled into the structure that all bitches are happy with.
Like advised, I clamped down quick with Ahhhh!!! it never lead to any squabbles thankfully and over the last 7 months nothing.

Here it was because Tess had come into the structure and Skye wasn't overly happy always being the one that lay next to Reah etc she wasn't happy with Tess lying there too

Mine however do lie ontop of each other and Tess can now too
If it persists I'd just get in a behaviourist/trainer, it could be that one not being spayed hormones etc., could upset the balance.

It's not a matter really of believing or not - things move on and there are more discoveries. If you read the links I gave, they are from a reputable source and should have explained stuff

He famously said "it all means diddly squat to your dog" in his last and less well known book "Diary of a Dotty Dog Doctor".

Not sure if this was directed at me or Ben. No-one can offer a certain solution via the internet. Several of us suggested a vet check/reputable behaviourist to see if that shows light on the behaviour, and if a reputable behaviourist were involved, that's what they'd do, too before sitting down and assessing everything and putting together the behaviour jigsaw.

Wys
x

Yes, I'd go for it either being hormonal, (with the presence of the male not helping ), possibly now starting to become more of a learned behaviour; pain, or guarding her space when she chooses.

It might be useful to keep a diary - although if things are escalating it may just be better to get someone in, as doing a diary may take a while to get any real info/pattern etc.

Wys
x

Gosh some of this sounds like the problems I was having 18 months ago (though differences too).

I had two bitches who tolerated each other and lived relatively peacefully together. Then i introduced a 3rd dog - a male failed working dog which I had taken in to stop him from being pts.

Tension built up and built up between my two bitches and they started to fight frequently and more intensively each time.

The male dog didn't seem to be involved at all, they weren't fighting over him and he kept out the way when it started. But, as it turns out, his presence was the catalyst in that he was making the older bitch feel really insecure. She has two bad legs and the male was very clumsy and always running into her/standing on her etc. For some reason she never told him off, but she would take out her insecurity /frustration out on the younger bitch, who decided that she wasn't having any of it.

With my bitches the vast majority of the disagreements were actually over me and OH (highest value resource!) The older bitch wanted us to herself and would try to see off the younger one by staring at her and if that didn't work, posturing etc. At first we missed the inital staring and only started paying attention when the posturing started. By then, it wasn't obvious which had started it.

We got in a behaviourist who was really, really helpful. Most of what we were doing had been right, but she gave us some things to watch out for and a couple of things to change completely. Until we saw the behavourist, we had been 'supporting' Hoki as the oldest, the 'first in' and the bosiest. Her bed was nearer to us, she got treats first etc.

That all changed. Their beds were put equi-distance from us, we took it in turns to treat or fuss one dog first then the other. If Hoki was close to us and started to stare at Stumpy, we would move, then call Stumpy to us and then Hoki.

The other thing she told us was that if when there was tension (or even a fight) not to seperate the dogs entirely. They were both to stay in the same room in their beds but so that they couldn't stare at each other. Similarly if there had been a fight, both got told off (no matter which started it) and both ignored (or if one needed attention after a fight, they both got attention).

Very different to the usual 'support top dog' method and I'm not saying that it is the right approach for your dogs as your dogs aren't the same as mine, but just demonstrating how getting an experienced behaviourist in really helped.

We did rehome the male as his clumsiness was just too much for Hoki to deal with and left her constantly on edge. But the girls have been able to live together ever since in relative peace (there are still the odd moments, but nothing like what it was and of course we are far more aware of the early signs these days).

Good luck in getting it sorted.

I think there is very much a possibility that he may have something to do with it, Hali has given a good account of her dogs, but as she says yours are different, but the message is the same, you need to get a reputable behaviourist in to assess them.

Originally I dont believe in using pack hierarchy (with the human) taking the role with the intent of fixing a problem between dogs, or havign to dominate them into submission to keep our place as top dog.

There will be a hierarchy between multiple dogs in a household, but I dont beleive that status is set in stone, it can change depending on the individual dogs concerned, and the roles they play at any given time.

Life moves on and with it ,our "understanding" of canine behaviour.

As the links Wysiwyg has posted points out, some very good reading.

That would be my main feelings, possibly a carry over from her seasons if there is a noticeable change in her behaviour around her season. Possibly escalated by the introduction of an entire male who is probably just getting 'interesting'

.....Have you looked at the 'Stroppy bitch' supplement from CSJ? I have known a couple of people say how great it is.

As the problem started when your male was around 8 months old and coming into a new stage in his development with his hormones shooting up to new high levels, it's very possible that this may be the problem.

As this is a problem that could very easily get out of hand, you really need someone in to assess what's going on and to give advice accordingly.