Sorry I wasn't trying to say that she hoards animals...I was using animal hoarders of an example of where the intentions are good but the end resuls aren't.

As I have said, I think her intentions are good (in helping animals) but I'm not at all convinced that her actions to get there are or that the end results will be.

Oh dear. They breed from ANYTHING that works, dismissing the construction faults. Dont you get that? Springers, working bred, in many cases have deformed, bowed front legs, out at the elbow and worse than any Bulldog you will ever find. Many of these dogs go on to develop horrible arthritis because of the deformities that have been ignored because while it was young it could pick up a pheasant!

I thought you would have knew what I meant with the mouthes. Ive seen many poorly bred "working" type Springers who are undershot. Not marginally, very much so. But still ignored if the dog can pick up, which is why I find it wrong to breed solely for the working ability, which is what most working people do.

I have met loads with the 'squatter ' look. None that I know of have arthritis----however I certainly wouldn't say on the sample I have seen that they couldn't get it.

I have however met and owned many other shaped dogs with arthritis. I am of the opinion (no proof) that it is caused by the amount of agility jumping and general leaping that some dogs do/have done.

It is certainly known to be very prevelant in human athletes

It could well be that the amount of rushing around and generally being springers would cause arthritis in some dogs.

Until someone actually has some kind of proof of cause and effect it is all conjecture and hearsay.

You could well be right in what you say----but you could equally well be wrong.

There is proof and has been for years that too many wrinkles cause skin problems and eye problems, that flat faces cause breathing problems etc.

rune

Well I do know several "retired" working Springers and a couple Cockers too. When I say retired, I mean just 6/7yrs old. I find that absolutely awful. Still, they could run and carry as a younger dog. My friend also had a working Cocker, similar thing there too, awful front, very arthritic by the time he was 8, and should still have been in the field. (his owner is a gunsmith) He had a show bred Lab now, works a treat, picks up regularly, sound as a bell and has lovely straight legs.

Thats not exactly a representative sample is it? As I said it is hearsay and you have no idea what caused any problems.

Labs don't work or behave like spaniels. They are more likely to have 4 feet on the ground!

rune

Not if you say so, Im sure you work with many, board many as I do, shoot regularly and work with such dogs regularly, so you can speak of experience, yes?

Sorry didnt see the bit you added til now.

Are you seriously telling me, that at 8wks old when its plainly obvious, the reason the legs are like that is because they are bouncing round? A Lab is far more athletic than a Springer. Springers work cover for the most part, where the Lab cant get. Labs jump gates etc... far more than a Springer would, why dont they go the same way?

Well I had enough experience to know that luxating patella doesn't always show----which you didn't Also I tend to be VERY careful what I post as being true.

If you have proof that the dogs structure causes the arthritis can you post it?---otherwise it is hearsay and conjecture. Which a lot of your posts seem to consist of-----which is fine but I would hate people to take them as definites rather than opinions----which is what they are.

rune

No dear, I am saying that the arthritis could be caused by the leaping around----NOT the way the dog is formed can be caused by the leaping around!

rune

Oh please Lynn do me a favour, you want "proof?" seriously? I seem to remember me asking for proof of something was silly and you were not going to possibly do that! Those other threads you spoke of earlier, you seem to have forgotten already.

Its a shame you dont realise what poor breeding does to a dog and cannot see the deformities for what they are in a working dog. Im not surprised, but it does sadden me greatly.