RAMBLE SAID.
Actually Ailsa, MOST working dogs work on instinct alone, they are taught only basic obedience, its all the flyball, agility, obedience stuff that dogs are trained to do against all their natural breed instincts, yet that is not in question? Show me a working dog, Terrier, Hound or Gundog that shows signs of nervousness or unwillingness, and bare in mind these dogs are all worked loose at great distances sometimes from their owners, have you ever seen one that seems unhappy? I have seen plenty in obedience circles that look positively terrified.
Dawn.

I really should be keeping up to date with this can anyone tell me when the ban began in scotland? I had been under the impression that it would come into play in the spring of next year to be honest though I have never really know where we are with this it just seems to be one thing said in the dog papers one week and another the following.

I thought it was April 07 for England and Scotland?

I was going by you saying ``I choose to dock to allow them to do this without injury and yet I'm looked down upon by some?

I love my dogs and only want the best for them, I dock for these reasons. I'm not a nasty person who loves "mutilating" my animals.``.

You have to admit, the way that reads did come across rather that way



That is just not true. The Wansbrough report clearly explains the utter misconceptions on the pain levels and reactions and why pro-dockers have been getting the minimal or no pain claim so very wrong through the years

Why would it be ignored ?
No I have`nt personally but I know plenty who have. If I were invited to `observe`, none of the pups in my presence would get docked. The owner would have to go through me and I would take whatever steps necessary to physically defend the pups.

Of course, debates and opinions are what forums are for

If there is one thing I have seen stand out a mile on Dogsey, its that differences of opinion rarely spill over to other things so just because we oppose on this one does`nt stop us having a right laugh on something else

thats what I thought also its so confusing

Dogs doing agility, flyball or obedience dont have bits of their spine or any other body parts lopped off to do those activities. There is simply no comparrison.

I think it is to save injury from undergrowth which can tangle and cut tails, also barbed wire is a major problem but that said it can catch on any part of the body and cause damage but I think its the problem they have getting tails to heal, I know we do it to lambs to save fly strike and the likes but would not have thought it would be an issue for dogs,

I was just commenting on how there is no comparrisson in it being said that agility, flyball and obedience dogs are `made` to do `unnatural` activites which is nothing to do with the docking of tails, that was all

Hi Rips!
No, I haven't seen a litter of pups docked and to be honest, I really don't want to. No part of me wants to view that and I would actually try to stop it from happening.

I have read your posts. :smt001 I have taken them to mean you want to work and show your dogs??? Now you will be unable to do that? I'm not entirely sure of what my thoughts are on that Rips, I can see it will be upsetting for you though.

As for the argument that it's better to have an animal live wild and then shot, as opposed to being reared on farms. IMO (and that is all it is ) I would rather all meat is organically reared and done so as naturally as possible. When I say organically, I also mean that the animals are not kept in appalling conditions. THAT is the meat my OH and son eat. I would rather all meat was produced that way, rather then being wild and being shot for sport.
IMO (and again that is all it is) the animals that are shot on hunts are shot needlessly. They are shot for the fun of the person doing the shooting. It's a game. I don't want any part of that. Sorry Rips,(and others) that's just my view on it. I am anti hunting and antidocking yes.

We will never agree on any of this as I am thrilled at the ban and so many of you are not.
Please don't think I haven't listened, as I know you have listened to me. I have. I just don't agree and never will. I am thrilled about the ban. You are not (you being general not being aimed specifically at you Rips). As others have said, the joy of Dogsey is that we can leave those disagreements here and respect each others viewpoints.:smt002
Axxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I've often wondered if it's not possible for pro dockers or those that show and prefer docked dogs (ie often the custodians of the individual breeds) to simply breed for "docked" looking, shorter tailed dogs?

I would think that as dogs are bred for just about every look under the sun, that it's possible

It probably wouldn't be that easy, as when breeding so many things have to be taken into account, and I can't imagine breeders concentrating on it for as many generations as it might take to the possible detriment of other desirable breed standard requirements. But it's a thought :smt002

Re dew claws - my dog had her front dew claws removed and I hate it, much preferred my first 2 who had their dews, current one often nibbles and licks around where it was taken from (by often I mean about twice a week).