Nope, Foxes have just exploded through many different reasons. Look at Badgers and the way in which their numbers have rocketed. They are encroaching on towns now too, not because they have nowhere to live in rural areas, but because the very nature of these animals is evolving.

Can't agree with you, where my sister lives for example. When they bought the bungalow they are in some 30 years ago it was the green built area and where told nothing would ever be built behind or beside them. Add to that the ground to the side of them was marshy. Now they have houses everywhere round them and yes the houses at the side of them have problems with subsidence. The whole area pre housing was a popular badger and fox route, still is as both sets of animals still use the same route, only now through people's gardens - a route that they have always used through untold generations

Mankind can't even live in peace with themselves never mind the animal kingdom

Live and let live is my motto

I thought you did live in a rural area?

Asides the visiting badgers and foxes my brother in law now has a grey squirrel who comes and raids his bird feeders

Geez, I never pointed a finger at any one individual and said YOU are confusing the two, but thank you for clarifying. I am very aware they are two different things, which is why I noted that perhaps *some* may be confusing the issue and letting their ethical stance confuse the two, we all have one of course, although I'd add the proviso that's a royal *we* there, I'd hate to accuse any one individual off having ethics, good or bad.

Well your friend was very unlucky, he probably came across a brown snake, one of the handful of snakes considered to be aggressive that will actually instigate a confrontation, or happened to tread on something that tries to conceal itself to avoid detection. Was your friend born and raised in the outback? If so, he was even more unlucky, if he was visiting, then possibly didn't have the skills and local knowledge to avoid the snake in the first place. The fact that he survived raises an interesting question, if it was an incredibly venomous snake such as the brown snake, it might not have actually used a full dose of venom. Venomous snakes are very much in control of their venom glands, and use varying amounts, more for prey items, less for animals they perceive as a threat.

I didn't live in Africa as a child, but did live in countries with snakes, scorpions and other nasties, which meant I had a slight advantage in dealing with the local wildlife in Africa over some of the other ex pats who were fearful and didn't know what to do with them, which the locals thought was highly amusing.

Yes,but thats not what i was getting at. We're top of the food chain because we can make a spear or a knife or a gun or a trap-animals cannot do this. Yes,tigers for example have big pointy teeth and are very powerful,but we humans have the intelligence and ability to produce a gun for example to thwart such an attack so we *are* top of the food chain no matter how you look at it.

This is the point i was making.Not otters banging stones.

I wasn't getting stroppy; perhaps it came across that way as I was a little busy settling current foster in! I wasn't sure what your point was. I spoke about my lack of faith in intelligence testing and you started to talk about ethics

My friend has lived in the area for 50 years. He absolutely knows what he is doing. Saved by quick thinking but it was close.
We have many predators, we as a species carry a lot of weight! As a species with many predators we cannot be top of the food chain.
Yes I know it was but it isn't what you said

As I said to Tarrimoor, better scientists than us will continue with the 'who is top of the food chain' debate but I am very firmly on the 'not us' side ( as you can probably tell), given,should they really feel that way inclined my dogs could eat me and I would be able to do very little about it.

I disagree Dawn. They are adapting because we are encroaching on their territories, as Velvetboxer says;wandering over their paths. I think most badger experts that monitor the populations would agree with that, certainly that seems to be the case in this area.(I am talking about a large area). As a result of their adaptation perhaps numbers are increasing but methinks we started it.

I've yet to see a tiger go through a McDonalds drive thru ....sorry, couldn't resist

I don't doubt it, but what about those in the middle of London - how long has London been there? Foxes are there because they are opportunistic creatures and there is an abundance of easy food in the cities. Yes, we are encroaching on the countryside, and their territories, but building on green belts is another debate.....

Tarismoor, I am still researching pheasant towers in this country as I, and a few I have spoken to have never heard of them. Have you got any weblinks, or places they are actually at? I did see some in America (and they are disgusting) but just couldn't find any in this country.

Helen

Helen, we encroach they adapt and so
it continues; bit like dogs did really.

The foxes in some parts of London are a massive problem. Where my sister lived (Bromley) the foxes were in her garden all night. This was a massively built up area. They sat on the roof of the sheds/ on fences all the time. They had mange and who knows what else- they weren't healthy looking. I live in suburbia but close to woodland/ playing fields spaces where foxes can be foxes. They do come into gardens and have had a few pets; rabbits and kittens! They do
it at dawn and dusk though and are really healthy looking. Scarily so! Totally different to the ones in Bromley who were absolutely urban.
My sister couldn't leave her back door open. To the people there they had become big, troublesome rats.

Not sure what the answer is. Perhaps neutering. Perhaps more control of rubbish and refuse. Not a good
Life for them or those around them.

A friend locally had a garden that backs onto an area with a healthy fox
Family. She started to leave food out when she saw the vixen had cubs. Within a week the vixen started to bang
On the patio door for food!!! very clever!