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Borderdawn
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28-12-2009, 07:42 AM
A fox suffering from mange will often act abnormally. It’s fear for humans often appears lost. It will walk around almost aimlessly during daylight hours constantly biting and scratching at the irritation. Always on the move and unable to rest for long periods,
This is from a Fox site also. It does explain why some mangey Foxes are out all the time, its not normal for a Fox to be out in daylight, if it were they would be as common as dogs on the street.

Its also possible and I have read somewhere, that low level infections still show symptoms, which is why I believe that apparently "normal" Foxes are out in daylight.
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Ramble
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28-12-2009, 07:48 AM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Certainly is why, look at most of the "town" Foxes, I mean proper town Foxes, like those in London for example.
Mmm it could well be. I grew up in a different city and our house backed onto Woodland Trust woodland...which led to a quarry and then more woodland (factories and a school with large playing fields in the other direction). Again...heaps of foxes and birds etc...all really healthy. City foxes again though. So I guess you mean the city foxes that roam streets most of the time and don't have access to much safe, open space? (Not that it would seem our woods and parkland are safe right now from those hunting the foxes down... )
I wonder if they have started hunting with their dogs in citys because it is illegal? I know it has gone on in our woodland for a while now...but I wonder if the appeal has increased because it is illegal...
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Borderdawn
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28-12-2009, 08:00 AM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
Mmm it could well be. I grew up in a different city and our house backed onto Woodland Trust woodland...which led to a quarry and then more woodland (factories and a school with large playing fields in the other direction). Again...heaps of foxes and birds etc...all really healthy. City foxes again though. So I guess you mean the city foxes that roam streets most of the time and don't have access to much safe, open space? (Not that it would seem our woods and parkland are safe right now from those hunting the foxes down... )
I wonder if they have started hunting with their dogs in citys because it is illegal? I know it has gone on in our woodland for a while now...but I wonder if the appeal has increased because it is illegal...
Yes those types of Foxes I mean.

With the numbers of Foxes increasing everywhere, its inevitable that they will appear more common and be seen more I suppose. Thing is with Foxes, they become very "comfortable" in their surroundings very quickly, and may not see a dog or a person as a threat, again its the "town" effect, they lose their natural behaviour.

Dont think for one second I dont like Foxes, I do, I like all native British Wildlife, but they do need control. When people change their behaviour through our behaviour towards them, thats when it becomes a problem, for them and for us.

We have a family of Foxes just yards from our house, I can see them most nights, but lately in the colder weather they come out during the late afternoon. It was just a week or so ago I noticed the vixen has little coat on her tail, mange I expect, but I also wonder whether her behaviour has changed because of it, coming out earlier and the cubs which really should of been kicked out by now, are copying. All goes for making problems when wild animals dont behave naturally.

Here are a few pics, I even PAID £80 to photograph Foxes!!









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Ramble
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28-12-2009, 08:18 AM
Stunning photos Dawn...as usual!!!
We have seen more of one of the foxes lately, just fleeting glimpses more than anything but I suspect it may be because they are nervous and on alert...

Mange is a worry though....
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Lizzy23
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28-12-2009, 08:20 AM
cracking photos Dawn, have been following this thread with interest, and have to say i agree with Dawn, in my experience the only foxes that get caught on a hunt are the old and ill, snaring is down right cruel and you have to be a very good shot to kill a fox cleanly, its more likely to be wounded and walk away to die a slow and painfull death the same with poisoning, its also more than likely that the ones killed in these ways could be young and fit.

What you also have to remember is that the fox kills indescriminately as well, if it gets in with chickens it will eat one and kill the rest for fun, as the fox population increases (we had one here trotting down the middle of the street in the middle of the day) i believe that they will turn more and more to domestic animals.
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Ramble
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28-12-2009, 08:22 AM
Originally Posted by Lizzy23 View Post
cracking photos Dawn, have been following this thread with interest, and have to say i agree with Dawn, in my experience the only foxes that get caught on a hunt are the old and ill, snaring is down right cruel and you have to be a very good shot to kill a fox cleanly, its more likely to be wounded and walk away to die a slow and painfull death the same with poisoning, its also more than likely that the ones killed in these ways could be young and fit.

What you also have to remember is that the fox kills indescriminately as well, if it gets in with chickens it will eat one and kill the rest for fun, as the fox population increases (we had one here trotting down the middle of the street in the middle of the day) i believe that they will turn more and more to domestic animals.
We don't have Guinea Pigs,rabbits or chickens (which I would love) because of the foxes...
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Lizzy23
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28-12-2009, 08:25 AM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
We don't have Guinea Pigs,rabbits or chickens (which I would love) because of the foxes...
everybody i know who has tried keeping chickens in semi rural areas has lost them to foxes, my friend dug her fencing in about a foot down and they still dug under it, and why would mr fox go off hunting wild food, when he has a captive meal sat there waiting for him
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Ramble
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28-12-2009, 08:29 AM
Originally Posted by Lizzy23 View Post
everybody i know who has tried keeping chickens in semi rural areas has lost them to foxes, my friend dug her fencing in about a foot down and they still dug under it, and why would mr fox go off hunting wild food, when he has a captive meal sat there waiting for him
We're not semi rural at all...definite city...but there are lots of foxes because we have loads of park and woodland etc close by as well as school fields. My son's school put a trap down for the family of foxes that lived under the container on the field. (It was a humane trap thingy...)
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maxine
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28-12-2009, 09:26 AM
They are really beautiful photos. We have loads of foxes around here but you rarely get close enough to have a good look at them. I am a volunteer in a wildlife hospital and we get loads of foxes in with mange. Often they have hardly any fur left at all and it sometimes takes months to get them right so they can be released. So how do I square this with foxhunting? If a landowner has a problem and wants his fox population reduced, then hunting with dogs was a legitimate and undeniably swift method of doing it. Having said that on the few occasions that we went hunting in Yorkshire we never even saw a fox or a hare, although on one occasion we were apparently chasing a fox, but lost it.

I have tried to outline how for many people that hunt there are other reasons for doing it, it is not about watching a fox being slaughtered. For us it was a brilliant day out, a way to improve your skill as a rider and an invaluable way of improving your pony. We had a Connemara pony who was hunted in Ireland before we bought him, and as a result he was a safe, bombproof and fearless ride, whether he was hunting or doing cross country. It's not about making money, it's all part of the pony's training and socialisation process which of course does happen to add value.
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Moobli
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28-12-2009, 09:42 AM
Originally Posted by chaz View Post
I don't like snaring, as I find that cruel, and I believe the laws for that are so fudged up, you only have to check the snares legally one every 24 hours, that could be a long time that a animal is in pain, also the legal ones are 'free running', but what animal is going to stop and think, ok if I stop struggling it would get looser, or stop getting tighter, and even worse what happens if the animal gets out and is left to wonder in pain until it dies, or its skin becomes dead because of the tightness around it (I can't remember what its called) but there has been plenty of this at work, and the area that have had things like this happen can actually fall off

Although I do wonder why most people think of Fox hounds when talking about this, what about Lurchers? Diesel's parents was bred to be fox hunters, and so was Diesel's litter he would of been used illegally to hunt and kill Foxes if he was sold to the people who his breeder and seller wanted him to be sold too, and I'm sure that some of his litter mates are being used, but they would not chase for a long time, but could be slipped and catch a fox quite quickly.

Also I saw someone else mention foxes freezing, the ones that have come through work, and the permenent ones might freeze for a second at the most, but will run very quickly to get away from people.
I absolutely abhor snares too - and unfortunately have to live with them as my husband is head shepherd on a shooting estate Two of my dogs got caught in snares recently. Flame (GSD) had one round her muzzle which was extremely tight and I would hate to think what would have happened if I hadn't been there quickly to help her out. The other dog that was caught around the neck was one of my hubby's working dogs and thankfully she didn't panic and I was able to let her free with relative ease. I wish they would be banned and I often have heated discussions with the keepers up here about them. However, I also hate lamping foxes at night (which is also a regular occurrence where I live) as it is not easy to cleanly shoot and kill a fox that is fleeing for its life over heather I can understand why keepers cannot allow foxes around their release pens and also, as this is a grouse moor, they want to protect the ground nesting birds. However, what I don't understand is that it seems that every fox up here has to be extinguished. They won't tolerate any at all, which I find hard to stomach. Especially when I heard of a vixen with six cubs being killed last year Not one was allowed to live.

Part of the reason I believe that fox hunting on horseback is all about the thrill of the sport, is that if they were seriously wanting to control foxes they would use dogs such as lurchers, which could catch and kill a fox with relative ease and in a much shorter space of time - ie no long, drawn out chase. But, hey, where is the fun in that?!
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