are judges really fooled by a haircut? Wow that puts a new light on cutting hair then! I guess thats cheeting too

and yup I totaly agree with the above, I hate to see some of the working breeds that have now been bred to such a full coat that they would need more grooming than the average farmer/gamekeeper would want to put up with and would actually be to the detriment of the dogs ability to work
I think that should be addressed

No they are not, a haircut will only give an optical illusion, its easy on the eye ,

Why do you think a judge puts his hands on a dog, to "feel" the conformation under a coat, a haircut wont hide bad movement it wont hide poor conformation.


I have no problem (within reason) of primping and preparation of a dog for the ring.

After all dont we wash our hair have a shower, wear perfume, we like to look presentable, so why should be be any different with our animals, do we want to walk around and present a dirty smelly dog to the world... I dont, I like my dogs to look nice and smell nice.

Saying that, some people do go to far, all the hairspray and chalk thats wafted around at ring side is a nightmare, so in that respect I agree with a harder approach.

The way the poodle people were frog marched out of the ring at Crufts was disgusting and was way over the top.

Not to mention the flaws in the method of testing, what if you or your dog had rubbed up against another, depositing substance on it or your clothing, , your dog will then be found guilty.

I am not sure I agree with the cheating accusations, as its plain to see, so its down to a judge to act accordingly, if they feel a dog it to "prepared" them they should not place it.

Was once sitting next to the bull terrier ring and the judge after putting his hands on the dog was covered in white chalk, those sitting ring side were also covered with it , when the dog shock himself.

Lets not forget the clue is in the name, its a dog show, you want t show your dog off to its best.

You cant do that unless you do some preparation , would you go on a night out in your mucking out,dog walking clothes, my guess it you would have a bath , wash your hair, put your rollers in and wear you nice bested clothes..

Totally agree with Jackie I wasn't insinuating that judges can be fooled, or that trimming a dog to make it look better is cheating.

If a judge can't tell a decent dog from laying hands on him/her and the movement then there is little hope for the exhibitors However, if there are two equally good exhibits I would suggest that the better trimmed one would probably get the placing, it could mean that, in reality, the 1st dog hasn't got quite the reach of neck of the 2nd, but the groomer has made it appear to look like it has. If everything else is good then the judge will have to nit pick and go for what pleases their eye the most out of the two.

no one is saying take a dirty dog!

but all the added extras? no need and is against the rules.

yes I didnt think it would be the case with the haircut - but a previous poster said it did so i wondered
If thats the case then I dont mind washing brushing and triming - I even brush my dogs sometimes before an agility show
but I dont like breeding for coat that needs lots of work
I dont like the idea of a dog that needs washed a few times a week

If the breed is judged on its coat then anything put on the coat to alter it IS cheating and the KC are right to crack down on it (imo)

I totaly agree it is a dog SHOW and have no problem with people taking pride in their dogs and taking time to make them look as good as they can
but it is also a DOG show - and I think things like hairspray and stuff is taking it too far
the DOG should always come before the show

But the point that is being made on the "testing" (in general) can include what goes into the products that are used to wash the dog.

Conditioners contain silicone, whitening shampoos, and so on, which all have effect on the coat.

If you are going to prepare a dog for the ring , you will use the product that gives that dogs coat the best effect.

A bit like shampoos for (human) curly hair, or straight hair or dyed hair.


You are not going to wash your or your dogs hair that leaves it lacking in condition or texture. that not cheatign in my book, its simple enhancing what nature gave the dog.

I agree regards the hair spray , the ozone layer will suffer from the amount used at shows.........nto to mention the people and dogs that have to breath the stuff in.

Yes some people will like putting all the work into the coat - but if it is a working breed is that the right coat for the breed? imo a dog whos breeding means he is supposed to be out in a field all day if they have a coat that needs hours of prep -imo - then the coat is not correct for the dog - it might look flashy in the show ring but it is not correct

Yes I agree it depends on the product - but - I know with my dogs their coats are much better if I dont wash them, rather than strip all the natural oils out of the coat and then replace them with synthetic products they are much better as nature intended. I brush them out and rinse them off when stinky but imo a dog does not actually need conditionars and stuff

I well remember the 80's when I sprayed my hair rock hard lol, but when I am now putting on a little hairspray the dogs are put out of the room

I don't have any problems with testing their coats at all.

I am an exhibitor that dosnt bother with sprays, chalk, etc, my dogs get bathed, well rinsed, then blasted for a show, compared to some dogs in the same breed they dont look as glam, but I personally feel happy to show them that way, I know they are clean and what you see is what you get. one day I may change my mind but at the moment I am happy showing my dogs the way I do. and I am happy for the KC to do coat test, although I do think that they should do the tests BEFORE a dog goes into the ring, if they are going to eliminate a dog from competition then do it before its won any prizes IMO

Mo