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View Poll Results: Should dog agressive dogs be allowed to attend normal dog classes?
Yes, they have the right to training the same as the next dog! 47 63.51%
No, its not fair on the other dogs! 27 36.49%
Not really bothered either way! 0 0%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll - please see pinned thread in this section for details.



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Deccy
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24-09-2006, 03:30 AM
I think it depends to an extent on what sort of aggression it is.... if it is nervous aggression in a dog that has been the subject of an unprovoked attack previously, or a "male-male" (entire) showdown type, I don't think that is the same as an out and out nasty dog.
It may also depend on the owner's reaction to it as well. If one of mine attacked another for any reason I would be mortified and consider that it was my fault for not controlling the situation. I have seen some pretty stupid, irresponsible owners at training classes who just titter when their dog does something anti social and nearly say "aw bless" while I feel the need to kick hard - the owner, not the dog!
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Katrina342
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24-09-2006, 06:37 AM
Colliemad, that was an awful experience with lasting effects on Kelly. I'm starting puppy training with Willow in three weeks' time and will be extra vigilant. I'd be absolutely furious if this happened to her. It can affect their whole lives.

Daisy was dog aggressive and I used to keep her away from other dogs, apart from Poppy, who she loved loads.

I probably should have socialised her more thinking back. She would go for any dog, whatever size, whether she was on or off the lead. I only let her off the lead where I was absolutely sure there couldn't be any trouble.

I know why she was dog aggressive and it was down to some very bad advice I took, as a new, fairly inexperienced dog owner, when she was a pup from a very trusted (then) friend. It was nothing particularly awful of course, but it did affect her character and meant that she didn't like other dogs very much.

As someone else said, its really about people, as well as about dogs.
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colliemad
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24-09-2006, 07:37 PM
wolfie I actually agree with you. I think aggressive dogs should be allowed in classes but I think it has be done in the best interests of everybody. When such a dog is allowed to join a group everybody should be made aware of the situation, not just for the "friendly" dogs benefit but also for the "aggressive" dogs benefit. To provoke a dog such as this when an owner is trying to deal with the problems they are having it totally unfair so in fact everybody has to be responsible about it. I do not think that people should point the finger and expect the owners of such dogs to be responsible for everything regardless of provocation because they know their dog is aggressive. Unfortunately too many people set up classes to train dogs without having the knowledge to deal with such things and that is when problems arise. The dog that frightened kel should not have been in that class and his owner should have been more careful when she knew that he was dog aggressive.

Thankfully it did not ruin him completely, it could have been a lot worse and he is definitely getting better. I stayed at a friends last night, she has a rather pushy crossbred bitch, I think she is ace, Kel however has had a run in with her because she charges about barking and getting in his face which he just can't cope with. It's just the way she is but because of this they are only together for short periods of time and we are careful not to let them upset each other. Last night he started out a little worried and found himself a safe corner to watch out from but then he eventually plucked up the courage to play with her for five minutes before giving up and playing with the nine month youngster instead, I was so chuffed though, never happened before. I think it was cos it was a quieter situation and she was calmer than usual, but even so, WHOO HOO It may not sound like much but it is a really big step for him, they may never be "best mates" but this is a really big deal. Now he has been around her when she is quiet and chilled and then spent the whole day at a show with her today in the back of the van you can see that he is happier and more relaxed with her
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Wolfie
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24-09-2006, 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by colliemad View Post
wolfie I actually agree with you. I think aggressive dogs should be allowed in classes but I think it has be done in the best interests of everybody. When such a dog is allowed to join a group everybody should be made aware of the situation, not just for the "friendly" dogs benefit but also for the "aggressive" dogs benefit. To provoke a dog such as this when an owner is trying to deal with the problems they are having it totally unfair so in fact everybody has to be responsible about it. I do not think that people should point the finger and expect the owners of such dogs to be responsible for everything regardless of provocation because they know their dog is aggressive. Unfortunately too many people set up classes to train dogs without having the knowledge to deal with such things and that is when problems arise. The dog that frightened kel should not have been in that class and his owner should have been more careful when she knew that he was dog aggressive.
I totally agree. I am incredibly vigilant when it comes to Shaan. I constantly make people aware that he CAN be aggressive and if I get so much as a whiff of him trying it on, he's then removed from the situation and took back when he can behave himself in an appropriate manner.

If more trainers were able to deal with dog aggressive dogs, then maybe classes would be more enjoyable for everyone, including the dogs.
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lizziel
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24-09-2006, 08:22 PM
I think they should be allowed in training classes as long as everyone is aware of the situation and the trainer has a small enough class to be able to be aware of everything that is going on.

It must be very difficult for an owner to be able to find somewhere they can take their dog and let it experience being around other dogs. A training class would seem to me to be one of the safer places that a dog with this type of problem could go as long as everyone there is aware of the situation.

At our classes, during off lead work, the trainer reminds everybody who is waiting to do the exercise to be aware of their own dog and what it is doing and that he and the DA dog's owner will take care of the off-lead dog.

As long as the problem dogs are not all in the same class I think it can be beneficial to the other dogs to learn how to deal with the aggresion as well. Our trainer tells us that while we are waiting we should be keeping our dog's attention, even if it is just resting and waiting, and , as owners, we are responsible for being aware of what is going on around us as well as this will affect our dogs behaviour and attention.

A difficult situation but a learning process for all.
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colliesrus
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27-09-2006, 09:14 PM
i would say that was more the trainers fault, she shouldnt have put that dog in the puppy class and shouldve warned the other owners. sounds more like ignorance on behalf of the terriers owner.

Indy is fear aggressive too. hes ok with dogs hes knows well but other than hes all teeth. i started a new obedience club a month ago. i warned everyone there what hes like, that he wont go out of his way to get them, that he'll only go if THEY let THEIR dogs get in his face. they were very understanding and so far have done exactly that. i would be gutted if i was told i couldnt go cos he had problems. hes just like his mum when it comes to social situations! 'leave me alone'...lol
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colliemad
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28-09-2006, 12:00 AM
i would say that was more the trainers fault, she shouldnt have put that dog in the puppy class and shouldve warned the other owners. sounds more like ignorance on behalf of the terriers owner.
definitely the trainers fault BUT the terriers owner knew he wasn't good with other dogs and never said a word and was less than interested after he had had a go so IMO she was as much at fault
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sandymay
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28-09-2006, 12:45 PM
Classes should not be so large or in confined spaces if aggressive dogs are allowed to attend. I attended classes with my dog aggressive dog and he reacted badly because of numbers and space confines. He was so stressed (and me) by the end of each session that it was a pointless exercise, nothing was being learnt.
The summer classes were held outside with much more space and freedom and he improved dramatically, being able to be worked amongst other dogs of leads.
Spare a thought for these aggressive dogs, it's usually because they are very afraid or worried and to force them into a situation where they are full on is not always fair.
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poshdogmad
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01-10-2006, 12:41 PM
I took my puppy to socialisation classes. He was 14 weeks when he started. After 10 weeks he felt a bit cheeky and growled at a dog. The trainer grabbed a German Shepherd (mine is a Border Collie) and said my dog can have a fight if he wants it. Both dogs snarled and pawed at each other but fortunately did not bite. I pulled charlie away after a few seconds but he was very stressed afterwards! I have now tried another training class somewhere else. Charlie hated the Boxer behind him and barked. The trainer came over and yanked on his lead so hard several times that Charlie nipped me. He was totally stressed out. I took him away from the situation and had a go at the trainer. So in my experience it was the training schools that actually started the trouble. Bad trainers - both of them! I would certainly appreciate finding an APDT qualified trainer who would let my 9 months old pup into her class in order to socialise him all over again. But they are hard to find and I have become very suspicious of other trainers!
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colliesrus
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01-10-2006, 12:51 PM
thats terrible! putting a dog into a situation where it has no option but to fight is incredibly stupid and dangerous.
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