not sure what to do....advice needed.... recall problems **Updated 14 Aug**

hi all,

as some of you may know i have a rescue springer called sam. in most ways he is very good. he's very quiet and unassuming in the house and garden, and will just lie down and chill out. he has a mad blast round the garden every now and then, but otherwise his behaviour is great. he's great with my other springer girl too. i've just started clicker training with him and he's picking it up very quickly. he can do all sorts of tricks now! he's doing really well training and agility classes too.

my problem is he becomes a totally different dog outside. its as if every walk is his first and last one. its 100% per hour everywhere! which i dont mind, but when he came to me his recall was non-existent and his manners on the lead were terrible, so he's on a long line all the time. i get pulled around all over most of the time. i have tried to take him to 'boring' places to try and keep him calm, but it doesn't make any difference. i am always practising recall at home and round the garden which he responds to immediately (by whistle), but outside is a different matter. i blow the whistle, jump up and down, shake his treat box, sometimes he comes, sometimes not! at the moment i feel i'm never gonna be able to let him off his lead and let him have a real good run. i just think he'll just rocket off into the distance! so, do i perserve with him, or do i hand him back to the rescue centre and see if someone with more experience can help him? i love him to bits but sometimes walking him is more of a chore than a joy (he gets walked at least 2 hours daily, plus all the training that i do with him). and i cannot take him to the places that i used to enjoy with my other springer because he'd just pull me all over because there would be too much to see and smell and i just think it would blow his mind! sorry to go on......

I really feel for you as our situation was not that different only a few weeks ago. We got Blondi, and her leash manners were absolutely and flatly appauling. The only command she knew was sit, and it was completely hit and miss as to whether she would respond to it.

You don't say here how long you've had him. All I can say is that I felt exactly the same as you, and we had already agreed with the past owner that, if, with all the dog's problems, she ended up being too much, we would arrange to give her back.

I'm really not criticising here as I obviously don't know the full context, but just reading the above, and not knowing how long you've had him, it sounds like the dog may need a little time off. It's great that he's getting trained daily, on a long-line, walking for two hours every day, and so forth, but might it all be too much too soon? Again, I don't know as it's not clear how long he's been with you.

I can say with certainty however that Blondi (our GSD) is without doubt the most troublesome dog I've ever taken and I honestly couldn't imagine a much worse dog existing as she was when we got her only about 12 weeks ago. It does get better with time. I know all about the having the arms pulled out of the sockets at walking time and not daring to let them off the leash. But just give it time and focus on all the positives that it sounds like you've already accomplished to date. The rest will come, I'm sure of it.

I can honestly say that, based on the above information, I think I would give the dog (and myself) a few days off from training completely. Use that time to rethink my training regime, let the dog chill out a bit, and reward myself for all the accomplishments to date. I know all too well that it's oh so easy to focus on the one thing that the dog doesn't do as you would like, and forget all the different things they have learned.

hi GSDLover,

thanks for your reply and i dont think your critising at all! i never thought that maybe i am doing too much with him and it's blowing his mind! i'm probably doing it because i want to keep his mind occupied and not get bored, and that being with me is fun and exciting!!! think i'll do as you've suggested and take a bit of time out. i'll just maybe go to his training class tonight and agility tomorrow night and leave it at that. maybe do a few mins of clicker training each day, as he really enjoys that. we do have lots of chill-out periods though, where i just sit in the garden with them both and they do their own thing (usually sun-bathing ). do you think that maybe i should cut down on his exercise too? by the way i've had him for nearly 4 months and he's approx 3 years old.

sorry forgot to add that when we're out walking on the fields on his long-line, i do let him have a good run, i'm not always training him!! the line is approx 30 foot so he does get alot of freedom with it.

Have you thought about taking him to obedience classes, where you can practice recall, and walking nicely, without having to worry?

hi hevvur,

yes i already take him to obedience training twice a week. he behaves brilliantly there! we're doing our bronze good citizens award in a couple of weeks! he's come on alot since i got him though.

I can only really go by my own experience with Blondi, which does sound startlingly similar to your own in many ways, such as time of ownership and lack of any discpline on arrival. That's not to say that my way is the right way, but it's just what's working for Blondi and I.

When we got her, I gave her two to three weeks off completely to settle in. All I knew about her at that stage was from the past owner: pulling on leash, poorly house trained, can't be around other animals, and, as already stated, only has rudimentary sit recognition.

After about three weeks, I tried her on the leash outdoors to see how bad things really were for myself. It was bad -- very bad. I came back home and my arms physically hurt from being pulled. I figured, at that stage, to be fair to all, that I wouldn't walk her again until I felt more comfortable and that she wouldn't get a bad name for herself by scaring all other dog walkers with her lack of discipline.

For the next couple of weeks, I walked her up and down, up and down, round and round the garden on the leash for about twenty minutes twice a day. After that time, I took her to the front of the house and walked her around the forecourt where we live. She still pulled like a nutter, even at this stage, as it was new smells, sounds, and experiences.

By this time I was feeling a little bad that she wasn't getting the walking time needed; not only for the exercise but for the healthy one-to-one bonding which takes place during a walk. So I purchased a Halti. She literally ate through that in under five minutes. Back to the pet-shop it was. This time I purchased a Mikki Harness. The difference was instant. Of course the dog still pulls but it stops you feeling it. This was a major step forward as it enabled me to at least walk her without feeling physical discomfort.

She has been wearing that since, but during the past two weeks there has been a lot more loose-leash time during the walk where there is quite a loop in the leash meaning she's not even trying to pull. (Just my luck that she's now come into season so no walks now for three weeks or so!) Once I'm happy that the leash is remaining loose, I'll remove the harness from the equation. I'm in no hurry, as, after all, I'm trying to undo 18 months of habit that she's had.

As for training time - during the hot and humid weather we've been having, I felt that the dog's attention has been elsewhere for obvious reasons, and of course I haven't felt great in it either, so neither of us would have been giving our best. I decided not to continue outdoor training during this time.

However, I still kept recalling her to me indoors at random times and asked her to lie-down, sit, etc. I maybe do this three or four times a day.

Usually, weather being normal, I train her oudoors in the rear garden twice a day. Once in the morning and once in the evening. Both sessions last for about ten minutes each (or until my pocket full of treats is emptied), usually sit-stay, down-stay, and recall. After training in the evening, I get her favourite ball out of the cupboard (I keep most toys so they retain their "value" to the dog.) and we'll play "fetch and here", make her sit and look at me in the eyes before I throw the ball for her when she returns. (Stealth training as I call it -- wrapping training in play).

Walking wise, I walk her twice a day, each lasting about 30 to 45 minutes. I vary the routes but only because I want to get her accustomed to as many scenarios as possible, such as heavy-traffic, heavy people density, quiet, etc.

Now, a few weeks on, she will sit on every request, lie-down nine requests out of ten, no longer chews our cushions, recalls in quiet spots though still very hit and miss when distracted, is fully house-trained, and seems to be as happy as a pig in mud.

During the day, as I work from home, she can come and go in and out to the rear-garden as she chooses. Invariably, she chooses to lie down on the landing or another cool spot.

Not sure how useful any of the above is but if it helps in any way, great. I'm a firm believer in letting dogs have their own time and space, keeping training to short and sweet burts, and hiding as much of the training as possible in play activities.

I think, going by your original message, that even pushing the dog out of the equation for a moment, you are starting to feel a little frustration, and so a break will do all parties the power of good. Time for a recharge. I do it whenever something is taking longer than I expect. It gives me time to see all the things that she is doing that she couldn't a few weeks ago., A great confidence booster!

Oops. I should add, I still don't let her off the leash in open-spaces yet as I don't have 100% confidence that she'll come back when called. But I'm confident that the time will come, and neither of us are in a race to get to the winning line. Just enjoying the incremental steps to the goal.

Sounds like Teagan!
Perfect in the class - heels wonderfully - outside the class a total nightmare!

Hi springergirl, I'm not going to pretend to be any kind of expert at training recall, far from it, I've just started with my pup on a long line.

Just one question though, are you giving Sam all 30ft of line when you're doing your recall work? If so, rein him right in to start off with, maybe giving him 3 or 4ft at first, so you're close enough to be in control, and then working it up in stages as he gets good at the shorter distances.

If you're doing that anyway, then ignore me but do consider asking a professional trainer to help you before you give up on him completely. He sounds like such a great dog, it would be a shame for you to miss out!

it is going to take absolutely ages for you to undo what has been learnt previous to coming to you. It is a bit like sanding a mark out of a piece of wood, you just have to keep at it, very gently. It will come good for you, it is awful when you compare your current dog to your lost beloved dog, I know how you feel!!!! My 2 terrors make me wish for Tawney again and again, but at the beginning she was a nightmare as well. They all are, they don't know any different. They aren't born with an instruction manual, or programmed to be obedient, it is learned behaviour. Unfortunately for you, one lot of behaviour has been learnt, but not the right type, you not only have to undo that behaviour, but install the type of behaviour you require. So just keep at it, slowly, do as much as you can through play so it doesn't seem like a 'lesson' and it will all come right.