For me its because they have been abused in the most dreadful, heartless way, teets red raw, stomach's touching the floor, never been walked, spent 24/7 in sheds, walking round in circles, only used to dark damp miserable life with pups hanging off them constantly.......and raped by male dogs to get easy money by the PF for pups.

Most Pound dogs don't all suffer that abuse, they tend to be unwanted, strays or pups handed in with mother, or simply because the person can not rid of them.

Personally I would rescue BOTH....but if someone can not see the reasons why dogs from PF should not be rescued after the PF has used and abused..............Im sorry to say in my book they are quite heartless people

I am in tears here thinking about these poor dogs on puppy farms . I totally agree with your post .
I cannot comprehend why anyone on a " supposed " dog loving forum would think these poor dogs do not deserve the chance of a little bit of happiness in their sad life

Just to point out I have removed some of JB's post because I want to respond to these specific bits.

To be fair to most people if they did think about it they would not want to support the cruel practises of p/fs..

But I disagree that it cannot be changed - to give an example think of a few years back, how many free range eggs did you see in supermarkets? But campaigns and publicity changed that hugely.

Yes the world of forums is fairly small but networking sites are huge and can have a big impact. Just think if we could post links to other forums and networking sites and forums were allowed to get together on this it could just start to get the message out there. Something, unfortunately we are not allowed to do. The many animmal forums should be encouraged to work together IMO not discouraged. Maybe that would get the message across to the general public? The more that shout together the louder that shout becomes!

Exactly

Again how are they helping out? Please tell me what you think happens to all the other p/f breeders who do not make it into rescue - and the majority do not! It is far more convenient for a p/f to use 'other' methods to get rid, drive to a remote area and dump the bodies than to drive to a rescue! That space WILL be made availabe REGARDLESS of whether a rescue takes them or not.

Unfortunately in this world dogs do have to be pts, poundies included and many many rescues do take last day dogs. However the fact remains some will be pts, how would you rather it be done? Spade round the head or needle by someone who cares, willl make sure the dog is actually dead and not in agony? A possible reason some rescues do take p/f breeders AS WELL as poundies?

Do people who take ex battery farm hens encourage the farmers to carry on, do people who take ex racing greyhounds encourage the sport?

rune

I have been wondring the same myself.

It is too easy to stand on the sidelines and say people who are actually doing something, rather than write on the internet, are doing the wrong thing. It happens all the time on this forum. Rescues are slated by a few people who know best.

rune

There are many rescues that deal mainly/solely with poundies. There are rescues that deal with ex-racers. There are rescues that deal mostly/solely with hand-ins and strays - especially those over in Europe. It's not like every rescue is concentrating solely on PFs - but Many Tears is located in a part of the country where PFs are rife and have decided to concentrate a lot of their attention on the issue. Presumably they have a reputation amongst PFs for not asking too many questions, so PFs are happy to hand their dogs over without fears of the repurcussions.

I don't know if I agree with it - I can see the point of it making it easier for puppy farmers. I don't support buying small animals from petshops. I don't even buy anything from Pets At Home, for example, or other petshops that sell live animals, because I dislike the idea of financially supporting the small-animal equivelants of puppy farms. But equally, when I worked in petshops, you get emotionally involved - I took home several animals that were otherwise going to be PTS because they had illnesses or conditions that would cost the petshop money to sort, and I couldn't bear the thought of those animals dying when I could take them on and either keep or rehome them myself. I made it a bit easier for the petshop, absolved the manager of the guilt of putting an animal down, and saved them the cost of euthanasia, but I also gave quite a few small animals a chance at life. I can see why Many Tears does what it does, even if it is partly responsible for making it easier for puppy farms. I felt a bit guilty for the part I played in the selling of live animals and ended up quitting for that reason, but equally I did not make the choice to stock/sell animals and it wasn't my call, so should I have felt that guilt?
In an ideal world, rescues refusing to cooperate with puppyfarms would make them stop operating completely, but in a realistic one, it won't - and many animals will suffer in the meantime. I'm not sure that with it happening right on my doorstep, I would be strong enough to turn a blind eye to it all in the hope that eventually, my decision to not get involved might have an impact on the puppy trade overall.

Azz, were you not recently considering supporting BYBs by offering a venue to sell their puppies, in the hopes that your involvement would eventually be used to educate them and the general public? It seems hypocritical to expect rescues to show their opposition to PFs by disassociation when you were planning the sneaky method of "keeping your friends close but enemies closer" yourself

I probably have a less romantic view of animals than most on here - in that I have no problem with an animal, including a dog, being killed as long as it's done in a quick and as humane as possible way.

So that said, I also can't understand why others have a problem with rescues like Many Tears.

If an individual, or group, wants to put effort into rescueing, it may not be what *I* would do, or could do, or necessarily what *I* think is the best course of action in the long run - but who I am I or who is anyone else to decide whether another should attempt to give these poor dogs a second chance at life? I commend people like that for the time, energy, and ultimately money, that they must put into this.

Let's attack the puppy farmers, the ROOT CAUSE of the suffering, and not the rescues who are just picking up the mess

This is just going round in circles. I shall continue to support Rescues who take BYB dogs, PF dogs, Greek dogs, Irish dogs, designer dogs, bull breed dogs, staffies, Spanish dogs, Greyhounds, pedigrees, ex-working dogs... in spite of the fact that a case can be made for not taking each and every one of the types mentioned because it`encourages the producers`.
We all do what we need to and we all answer to our own conscience.

That's two separate issues, Azz.

The first appears to me to be:

Is it right to take ex-breeding dogs/puppies from puppy farms for re-homing

The second

Should breeding bitches/puppies be taken by rescues at the expense of pound dogs.

On the first, I would say that, while I can see your point, I don't think that the few that are taken into rescue will make any difference in the scheme of things. Large scale p/fs will just kill the dogs and move on anyway so basically, IMHO, the rescue centres that take the dogs on are not influencing the abhorrent practice either way.

The second is a bigger question, IMO, as it's a 'playing God' question. Rescues have to do this every day - play God - by deciding which dogs they will give a chance to and which not. It's not a job I could do and so I can't judge them on their decisions. Suffice to say, they are saving some dogs. I can't criticise them on that because, after all, who am I to say which dogs are more deserving to live than others.