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Borderdawn
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30-12-2010, 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by Freyja View Post
I have said on at least 8 occasions during this thread that the tail was broken when he was attacked by another dog. It was queried either myself or his breeder was aware of the problem when I bought him. To which I answered yes we knew and also know when this occured still people insisted it was a kink.

To be honest I don't know why I keep replying to this thread as I know it doesn't matter what I say you have all decided that it is a kink and that is the end of it.

As for his weight when he came to us he resembled a little staffie he was that fat we know he is a little fattie and if and when he is shown it will not be untilhe looks somewhat more like the breed he is supposed to be.

Oh and I know someone who shows an iggie that stands with its front feet at 10-2 and wont even let anyone touch it that is always placed at shows. I think I break in his tailis a lesser fault if I had to have a dog with a fault
Ill try one last time.

It LOOKS like a kink, they are common in the IG as you will know. If you are certain its a break you will have no problem getting the nec letter to PROVE that, which will ensure your dog is treated fairly in the ring with an INJURY not a genetic fault. If you cant see why you would benefit from that Im afraid we cant help you.

In numerically small breeds its inevitable you will be placed.
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border pop
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30-12-2010, 10:20 PM
Originally Posted by Freyja View Post
If you were judging at a show and a dog in the ring had a tail that had a sometime been broken. I mean a tail with a kink or bend in it rather than been amputated but in every otherway was a good example of the breed would you knock the dog for it?

I am not talking about half way up the tail I mean at the end.
yes, if there was/were a dog/s of equal merit in the ring without the fault
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Windhound
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31-12-2010, 01:29 AM
I would just like to say that I judged last year and one of the breeds was Greyhounds,entered under me was a young male with a broken end to his tail,which his owner advised me had happened when he was being whelped. He carried the tail low set,and when he moved it was carried slightly to one side beside the hock and did not deter from his outline on the move. I gave him BOB over his kennel mate who had a CC at the time and then gave him HG2. The broken tail was a small factor to consider in the overall picture of a balanced and well made dog. I think that on the day all the merits would certainly out weigh one fault. I like the look of your boy and would not think that break in his tail is all that detrimental to his show career,and if you enjoy showing him then I would carry on.
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megan57collies
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31-12-2010, 04:33 PM
I agree with Windhound
I don't judge your breed but i do judge other breeds which can have kinks in their tail. Unless i'm told otherwise by the exhibitor i judge it as a kink in the tail. However if the exhibitor mentions the injury it at the beginning with a letter supporting that, then I do not judge it as a fault as it is not a fault from birth but the result of an accident.
The two occasions i have had letters, they have not been for this specific accident, one was for a dog with one testicle, the other having been removed due to a cancerous lump. The dog won the class and got reserve best of breed in my line up. If the correct supporting letter is there then in accordance with the KC rules that i judge to, I make allowances and don't fault it.
So if you think your dog has showing merit then I would say go out and enjoy it, however i wouldn't leave it to the judge to make the wrong assumption about the tail, but get a supporting letter and tell the judge when they're going over the dog. Good luck and have fun.
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Borderdawn
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31-12-2010, 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by megan57collies View Post
I agree with Windhound
I don't judge your breed but i do judge other breeds which can have kinks in their tail. Unless i'm told otherwise by the exhibitor i judge it as a kink in the tail. However if the exhibitor mentions the injury it at the beginning with a letter supporting that, then I do not judge it as a fault as it is not a fault from birth but the result of an accident.
The two occasions i have had letters, they have not been for this specific accident, one was for a dog with one testicle, the other having been removed due to a cancerous lump. The dog won the class and got reserve best of breed in my line up. If the correct supporting letter is there then in accordance with the KC rules that i judge to, I make allowances and don't fault it.
So if you think your dog has showing merit then I would say go out and enjoy it, however i wouldn't leave it to the judge to make the wrong assumption about the tail, but get a supporting letter and tell the judge when they're going over the dog. Good luck and have fun.
Following KC rules you should NOT be engaging in conversation with the judge/exhibitor at all while you are in the ring. You should provide a letter, left with the ring steward, for the judge to see, nothing more. Any other "conversation" could be seen as being in breach of the rules, reported and action taken.
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megan57collies
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02-01-2011, 12:05 PM
Oh Borderdawn you make me laugh I said nothing of having a conversation with the exhibitor, if they wish to check i have seen the letter then so be it. Same as if they ask to repeat what i want them to do in the ring or a newbie that's not quite sure what they are supposed to do. It doesn't change how I judge the dog as i'm honest about what i do.
I've never had any problems or complaints about my judging ethics thanks
But the point of my post was agreeing with you and others that a supporting letter should be obtained and given at each show, so the judge knows that is a break in the tail not a kink.
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Borderdawn
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02-01-2011, 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by megan57collies View Post
Oh Borderdawn you make me laugh I said nothing of having a conversation with the exhibitor, if they wish to check i have seen the letter then so be it. Same as if they ask to repeat what i want them to do in the ring or a newbie that's not quite sure what they are supposed to do. It doesn't change how I judge the dog as i'm honest about what i do.
I've never had any problems or complaints about my judging ethics thanks
But the point of my post was agreeing with you and others that a supporting letter should be obtained and given at each show, so the judge knows that is a break in the tail not a kink.
Point being if you are seen to engage in conversation with the judge you could be disqualified, believe me, its happened. Thats what the letter if for!
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megan57collies
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02-01-2011, 06:43 PM
Yes once the complaint is investigated and upheld and what the exhibitor said was inappropriate, absolutely right. So either other exhibitors heard the conversation or the judge reported something said as being inappropriate.
The thing is that a lot of exhibitors never read the whole KC rules and regulations and they are forever changing. So a little discretion sometimes is needed. We both know when an exhibitor is trying it on
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Findley
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24-01-2011, 10:31 PM
Judges should be checking the tails for kinks, the KC started this last year? If the dog has a break or kink the judge will not know at the time of putting his/her hands on the tail. Really depends on what other dogs are in the ring and would it be fit for purpose?
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Borderdawn
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25-01-2011, 10:09 AM
Originally Posted by Findley View Post
Judges should be checking the tails for kinks, the KC started this last year? If the dog has a break or kink the judge will not know at the time of putting his/her hands on the tail. Really depends on what other dogs are in the ring and would it be fit for purpose?
Are you saying you cannot see a kink or feel one?
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