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Trouble
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08-06-2010, 07:21 PM
In London which is where the attack happened and happens to be where I have lived for the past 55 years so do know what I'm used to seeing and that is foxes are commonplace and have been for at least 30 odd years. I can't speak for other towns but I'm pretty sure what happens here will be happening elsewhere too.
I do agree people should not be feeding them and should take better care of their household rubbish, the numbers would then no doubt decline naturally as the parents would struggle to rear so many cubs and it would become survival of the fittest.
As for it being abnormal behaviour for them to live in towns I would say they are just adapting to a changing environment. Entering houses I would not only see as abnormal but also a threat to their survival so that would surely be quite rare and now people have become aware of the threat in such a horrendous way I'm pretty sure they will sit up and take notice and start being more vigilant.
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Borderdawn
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08-06-2010, 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
In London which is where the attack happened and happens to be where I have lived for the past 55 years so do know what I'm used to seeing and that is foxes are commonplace and have been for at least 30 odd years. I can't speak for other towns but I'm pretty sure what happens here will be happening elsewhere too.
I do agree people should not be feeding them and should take better care of their household rubbish, the numbers would then no doubt decline naturally as the parents would struggle to rear so many cubs and it would become survival of the fittest.
As for it being abnormal behaviour for them to live in towns I would say they are just adapting to a changing environment. Entering houses I would not only see as abnormal but also a threat to their survival so that would surely be quite rare and now people have become aware of the threat in such a horrendous way I'm pretty sure they will sit up and take notice and start being more vigilant.
Well London is a big place, and listening to local reports they are sick to death of Foxes and very rightly so. Several locals spoke of Foxes getting into their houses, heck the pro Fox guy said they are sneaking in more and more, but only usually defaecate or steal food!!
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Trouble
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08-06-2010, 07:40 PM
London is a very big place and I've lived in quite a few bits of it over the years.
You can find reports saying all sorts of things but the problem is one person may be calling for them to be culled claiming them to be a nuisance while their next door neighbour is enticing them in with food because they love having wildlife on their doorstep and half a dozen others quite like having them and don't feel bothered in the least. Most surveys of Londoners found that the vast majority like having them around but certainly don't feed them or encourage them.
Any survey undertaken now would probably have an element of hysteria about it due to the latest incident, but over reacting is not the answer to urban foxes any more than it is to dangerous dogs.
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Borderdawn
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08-06-2010, 07:45 PM
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
London is a very big place and I've lived in quite a few bits of it over the years.
You can find reports saying all sorts of things but the problem is one person may be calling for them to be culled claiming them to be a nuisance while their next door neighbour is enticing them in with food because they love having wildlife on their doorstep and half a dozen others quite like having them and don't feel bothered in the least. Most surveys of Londoners found that the vast majority like having them around but certainly don't feed them or encourage them.
Any survey undertaken now would probably have an element of hysteria about it due to the latest incident, but over reacting is not the answer to urban foxes any more than it is to dangerous dogs.
Then calling for a cull can only be a good thing IMO. Perhaps those enticing them will realise the error of their ways.
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08-06-2010, 07:53 PM
Firstly my heart goes out to this poor family and hope for a speedy recovery for both little girls.

I think that the fallout from this incident is no different from the reactions we always see when young children are hurt. It seems to make the GP feel better and in control when they can demand the death of the offending creatures on mass and of course the media enjoy whipping everyone up into a frenzy of blood lust.

In my mind, foxes are adapting/have adapted to the environment that man has created and when they dont react in a way that we humans deem appropriate then they must be killed.
I live in the country and remember coming home to my first floor flat and finding a badger sitting at my front door. If my door had been open I have no doubt the badger would have entered and if I had cornered it, it probably would have attacked. If that had happened, would badgers be on the hit list for culling?
We need to keep perspective IMO and take responsibilty for the changes we bring to the environment.
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Trouble
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08-06-2010, 08:01 PM
Oh right, so because a few people feed them and entice them in the foxes should be bumped off, never mind the vast majority of Londoners are quite happy to live in harmony with them, doesn't sound at all logical to me
Next time a child is attacked by a dog should all dogs of that breed be culled?
Or should humans start to learn to adapt to living with the wildlife in their area and adjust their lives accordingly. By all means make it an offence to feed the foxes, provide people with wheelie bins to keep their rubbish in and empty them before they overflow all over the surrounding area. Make it an offence to leave rubbish sitting in your front garden for months on end and make house holders responsible for keeping their property in a sanitary manner. The problem of the urban fox was created by man let man be the one to adjust to living with the fox and not just bump them off because that's the easy option. Let man start to clear up his own mess and fox numbers will naturally decline.
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Borderdawn
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08-06-2010, 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
Oh right, so because a few people feed them and entice them in the foxes should be bumped off, never mind the vast majority of Londoners are quite happy to live in harmony with them, doesn't sound at all logical to me
Next time a child is attacked by a dog should all dogs of that breed be culled?
Or should humans start to learn to adapt to living with the wildlife in their area and adjust their lives accordingly. By all means make it an offence to feed the foxes, provide people with wheelie bins to keep their rubbish in and empty them before they overflow all over the surrounding area. Make it an offence to leave rubbish sitting in your front garden for months on end and make house holders responsible for keeping their property in a sanitary manner. The problem of the urban fox was created by man let man be the one to adjust to living with the fox and not just bump them off because that's the easy option. Let man start to clear up his own mess and fox numbers will naturally decline.
Now you are getting aggressive for no reason. A cull will not eradicate anything, but it may save these animals in the future, if people realise that the way THEY behave is encouraging the cull, thats all I was saying.
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labradork
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08-06-2010, 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
Oh right, so because a few people feed them and entice them in the foxes should be bumped off, never mind the vast majority of Londoners are quite happy to live in harmony with them, doesn't sound at all logical to me
Next time a child is attacked by a dog should all dogs of that breed be culled?
Or should humans start to learn to adapt to living with the wildlife in their area and adjust their lives accordingly. By all means make it an offense to feed the foxes, provide people with wheelie bins to keep their rubbish in and empty them before they overflow all over the surrounding area. Make it an offence to leave rubbish sitting in your front garden for months on end and make house holders responsible for keeping their property in a sanitary manner. The problem of the urban fox was created by man let man be the one to adjust to living with the fox and not just bump them off because that's the easy option. Let man start to clear up his own mess and fox numbers will naturally decline.
I don't think you could stop people feeding foxes. This irritates me as there is someone that leaves food for foxes down my road every night, which often results in the foxes making that awful screaming noise and waking the whole street up.

Buuut, the wheelie bin thing is the obvious solution. I didn't realize they did not have a wheelie bin system in London. Prior to introducing the wheelie bins down here, we would often have rubbish ripped open everywhere (mainly by cats I should add). The wheelies solved that problem.

The foxes would soon disappear without a regular food source; they will not starve themselves to death if they can help it.
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Trouble
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08-06-2010, 08:17 PM
well methinks you must have misinterpreted what I wrote because I have no feelings of aggression whatsoever
If a cull wont eradicate the problem then why do it? it will certainly eradicate the lives of an awful lot of innocent foxes.
Believe it or not people do actually have the capacity to learn and educating those who wrongly believe they are helping the foxes is the way to go, either that or cull them as they are the ones causing the problem.
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Trouble
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08-06-2010, 08:21 PM
Originally Posted by labradork View Post
I don't think you could stop people feeding foxes. This irritates me as there is someone that leaves food for foxes down my road every night, which often results in the foxes making that awful screaming noise and waking the whole street up.

Buuut, the wheelie bin thing is the obvious solution. I didn't realize they did not have a wheelie bin system in London. Prior to introducing the wheelie bins down here, we would often have rubbish ripped open everywhere (mainly by cats I should add). The wheelies solved that problem.

The foxes would soon disappear without a regular food source; they will not starve themselves to death if they can help it.
London has a very hit and miss wheelie bin system it varies hugely between boroughs some have 4 or more bins some still use bags, some have weekly collections some have fortnightly. Even in those boroughs with a multitude of bins it's not unusual to see them overflowing all over the pavements. People really do need to start taking more responsibility for their rubbish.
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