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Gnasher
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26-01-2010, 01:00 PM
From Defra, in a report dated 2000:

Northern Ireland has not adopted the DWAA 1976. At the present time there is no restriction on the keeping, breeding and sale of wolves or wolfdogs in the province, although CITES legislation can prevent the sale of pure-bred wolves. Since animals may be moved freely
between Northern Ireland and the mainland this provides a possible avenue for the importation of wolfdogs into the UK
.
Andrew Greenwood met with representatives from the Ulster Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (USPCA) and with the RUC Wildlife Liaison officer to discuss the current situation in Northern Ireland. It is the opinion of both parties that there are 3-6 breeders of wofdogs in Northern Ireland, although no records are kept of such practices. They understand that the breeding and sale of wolfdogs is a new phenomenon, and believe that wolves and
wolfdogs were imported from the Republic of Ireland in recent years (Philpott et al, 1999 personal communication). In early 1999 the USPCA estimated that there were at least 48 exotic animals owned by private individuals in Northern Ireland (O’Neill, 1999). It is certainly possible that Northern Ireland could be a source of genuine wolfdogs due to the
absence of restrictive legislation.
We were provided with the names of 3 individuals believed to be involved in the breeding of wolfdogs in Northern Ireland. Unfortunately, these people have moved premises on more than one occasion; we have been unable to establish dialogue with these individuals using the
most up-to-date contact details supplied by the USPCA.
Concerns over the trade in wolfdogs from Northern Ireland were expressed in 1996 following the appearance of an advertisement in an Essex newspaper, offering wolf hybrid puppies for sale for £800 each. The advert was traced back to breeders in Bangor, County Down, who claimed that the pups were bred from a pure Canadian Timber wolf father and a 95% wolfdog mother (Poulter, 1996).
A consultation paper on proposals to regulate the keeping of Dangerous wild Animals was published 5 February 1999 by the Department of the Environment for Northern Ireland. The proposed legislation is broadly similar to the DWAA 1976, with minor amendments to take into account the experience gained in the operation of the DWAA. The administration of the 22 new legislation is proposed to be entrusted to District Councils [however it is our opinion, in
the light of our findings, that it seems preferable to establish centralised licensing by the Department of the Environment]. The Government has concluded that appropriate legislation must be put in place as a matter of urgency (Department of the Environment for Northern
Ireland, 1999).
In April 1999, a wolf attack on a young girl in Bangor, County Down, prompted further demands for legislation to control dangerous pets in Northern Ireland. There has been no further progress with the Irish legislation since the consultation paper in February (Simmons, Department of the Environment for Northern Ireland, 1999, personal communication), and it would seem that any regulation of such animals is still some way off.
The Republic of Ireland does not have laws to restrict the keeping of wolves or wolfdogs; the Control of Dogs (Amendment) Act 1992 controls the keeping of specified Dangerous Dog Breeds; however this does not apply to wolfdogs. Although a Wildlife Act protects native
wildlife and requires an import licence for all wild animals, the Republic is not a signatory to CITES. No indication of the wolfdog situation in the Republic of Ireland was provided.


This was certainly the situation in 2000.
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Gnasher
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26-01-2010, 01:04 PM
Originally Posted by wolfdogowner View Post
Much as I enjoyed reading your post, I have no idea what you are talking about! Maybe you would post a photo?
Doesn't surprise me, I'm crap at explaining things!

If you look at the back of a Czech Wolf Dog, or a Saarloos, Utonagan, NI etc. etc. you will see imprinted there a white smudge mark, about the size of a thumb print. It is my opinion that the more dense the print, and the more it resembles a thumbprint mark, the higher the content of the wolf.

You know when police takes thumbprints - not they have ever taken mine of course! - and they take hold of your thumb, press it down on an ink pad and then press your wet thumb on a piece of paper? Well, the mark on the back of wolf crosses looks like this, except it is white - the hairs are white.

I haven't got a photograph of Hal's ears from the back, but I could get one of Tai, although his marks are very faint.
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wolfdogowner
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26-01-2010, 01:05 PM
Great, but this thread is about an animal called Brenin: his owner has never suggested he lived in Northern Ireland!
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wolfdogowner
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26-01-2010, 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
Doesn't surprise me, I'm crap at explaining things!

If you look at the back of a Czech Wolf Dog, or a Saarloos, Utonagan, NI etc. etc. you will see imprinted there a white smudge mark, about the size of a thumb print. It is my opinion that the more dense the print, and the more it resembles a thumbprint mark, the higher the content of the wolf.

You know when police takes thumbprints - not they have ever taken mine of course! - and they take hold of your thumb, press it down on an ink pad and then press your wet thumb on a piece of paper? Well, the mark on the back of wolf crosses looks like this, except it is white - the hairs are white.

I haven't got a photograph of Hal's ears from the back, but I could get one of Tai, although his marks are very faint.
Just grabbed a couple of passing Saarloos but cant see any mark; however their ears weren't being very co-operative, so I will look again later!
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Gnasher
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26-01-2010, 01:16 PM
My lunchbreak has come to an end, so I cannot google any more, but so far I have found out that the DWA Act as it applies to N Ireland (and it IS different from the rest of the UK) has not been changed.

I think what Krusewalker is referring to is the Dangerous Wild Animals Order 2004 - and again, I can find no evidence that even this Order is proposing the actual Act should ban wolves and wolf crosses in NI. I have just read the Hansard transcript, and there is a debate between various Lords stating that it is impossible to distinguish a wolf cross from an ordinary dog and that any legislation is going to be virtually impossible to produce. This of course is only the Hansard transcription of the debate in the House of Lords, there may be further stuff that I haven't reached yet.

But it would appear on the surface that no such actual legislation exists for NI - where the law is very definitely different with regards to high % wolf crosses than it is here. I cannot find any evidence that this is not the case, but I will look later at home.
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Gnasher
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26-01-2010, 01:18 PM
Originally Posted by wolfdogowner View Post
Just grabbed a couple of passing Saarloos but cant see any mark; however their ears weren't being very co-operative, so I will look again later!
The CWDs I know have a faint mark - with Saarloos being so white and grey and silver, it may not be so apparent, but Hal's ears had a lot of fawn on them so it was so apparent. I will do my best to photo Tai this evening.

I have a lovely image of you rugby tackling your Saarloos in an attempt to examine their ears! Do they hate having their ears looked at? Hal hated it, he loved them massaged, but he did not like any attention drawn towards them with regards to the thumb marks!
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Gnasher
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26-01-2010, 01:22 PM
Originally Posted by wolfdogowner View Post
Great, but this thread is about an animal called Brenin: his owner has never suggested he lived in Northern Ireland!
I know! But it is important to correct any potential inaccuracies I feel. There is enough guff talked about wolf crosses as it is, and how "dangerous" they are. Krusewalker could well be absolutely right, but my researches so far seem to say otherwise.

Apologies for going off topic!
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aerolor
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26-01-2010, 01:53 PM
This book is now available in paperback. On Amazon it costs £5.37. Regardless of whether folks think the animal is a malamute dog, full wolf, hybrid, whatever; and if it is a full wolf (which is doubtful) whether it should be kept in a domestic situation; I hope it will turn out to be a book about a profoundly close relationship, physical and mental, with another species, an animal just like us - not better, or worse, higher or lower, but different, and deserving of our respect and admiration. I think I will give it a read and see.
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wolfdogowner
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26-01-2010, 02:03 PM
Originally Posted by aerolor View Post
This book is now available in paperback. On Amazon it costs £5.37. Regardless of whether folks think the animal is a malamute dog, full wolf, hybrid, whatever; and if it is a full wolf (which is doubtful) whether it should be kept in a domestic situation; I hope it will turn out to be a book about a profoundly close relationship, physical and mental, with another species, an animal just like us - not better, or worse, higher or lower, but different, and deserving of our respect and admiration. I think I will give it a read and see.
Good for you! I read the book having previously seen the photo presented today (and others) about a year ago. I also discussed wolf hybrids in Ireland with Marc RowlandsHaving read his philosophy blog it is funny to see how outraged the humanists (missing the point completely) got over his suggestion that he wouldn't throw his dog out of a lifeboat to rescue a person... look deeply into your hearts people.
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Krusewalker
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26-01-2010, 03:14 PM
Originally Posted by wolfdogowner View Post
He took the animal to Southern Ireland where wolves can (rightly or wrongly) be kept as pets. Either way its confusing.
I dont know about the laws in Ireland, so havent commented upon them.
Twas Gnasher that mixed the countries up.
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