Aggressive methods of training unfortunately do work but that doesn't mean that's how dogs should be trained, it's very old school. All behaviour courses/degrees now emphasise on positive reward training, proving better results can be achieved.

But there is a difference between aggressive and firm handling. I wouldn't class shouting as aggressive, unless it was persistent and without just cause.

I agree that people do get results with true aggressive (and by that I mean constant shouting and physical abuse) but I think you can always tell afterwards, no matter how devoted the dog.

Although i don't know his background, I would lay even money on the fact that my rescue bc Kip was trained aggressively. He is never naughty (too frigtened to) and was very hand/stick shy when we got him. So much so that a friend walking him for me shortly after we go thim raised a stick to throw -he took fright & legged it straight home.

I must admit knowing that some shepherds are physical with their dogs, I was watching very closely for any signs of this and I saw none whatsoever - not talking about what we saw her do, but how the dog reacted around her.

So I have to say Anne, that whilst you may think her too aggressive, I wouldn't class her training as aggressive, just very firm. I think she went as far as this dog needed and got great results without in any way damaging the dog physcologically (sp).

Can I ask you Anne, how YOU would of trained that dog and do you think you would of achieved the same results in the same time. What specific points did you see her as being aggressive?
Dawn.

Luke has made a very good point in saying this dog is lucky to be alive, if he was on most farmers land attacking Sheep, he would not of been given a second chance.
Dawn.

My thoughts exactly Dawn.
I admit I didn't see the programme but certainly will watch it on Sunday.
I absolutely support positive training but most people are looking at obedience or something with their dog working on a one to one.
In this case the dog was working to sheep, another animals safety is involved.
What has been your training method Anne regards working dogs to sheep and how have you dealt with a dog that works sheep and has turned on the agressive side. I would value your thoughts

Thanks for posting when it is to be repeated, I missed it and really want to see how they did. Will catch up with it Sunday, ta!

To put it simply I would have used more praise and less aggression.
Being a qualified behaviourist my methods are always based on positive reward based training, there is never ever a need to chastise or hit a dog.

Right ok, first point - have you ever trained a dog to work sheep Anne?

By your responses I would think not. You say an already working sheep dog doesn't need praise but when initially training a dog praise should be used so they know when they are getting it right. This just isn't the case. When you are training a border collie or a bearded collie from working lines, with all the inherent instinct involved, you do NOT praise the dog when it is working. You show the dog it is getting it right by repetition and allowing its action to continue and use a firm no when they get it wrong. If the dog is allowed to continue to flank, gather, drive etc etc then it knows it is doing the right thing, and enjoys that feeling. Dogs bred for generations to do this work don't need to be shown what to do - all the young collies I have witnessed will balance a flock to you out of natural instinct, nothing more - you are just harnessing an instinct and turning it to your own advantage.

As far as your comment "less aggression" is concerned, I really didn't think she was being aggressive. Firm, yes. Aggressive, no. I have no problem with a loud voice when a dog is taking the p*ss. The dog showed no fear whatsoever of Barbara. He most definitely wasn't trained through fear in my opinion.

What better results could she have expected/achieved? A confirmed and dedicated sheep chaser had been turned into a working dog with a respect for sheep. Fantastic in my book.

Definitely!

To be honest, I am not sure it was ever said he was a sheep "killer", but he would definitely chase, worry and grip stock. And usually in these cases, the problem just gets worse and worse until a sheep is killed or the dog has been shot.

I don't think there can be any mistake that Barbara Sykes saved Herbie's life.

Another excellent point.