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Location: UK
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Posts: 13,122
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26-09-2009, 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher 
We use it m'dear, because it is so blatantly the case
You are pig sick because, thanks to CM, I can stop my dog mating a bitch
Originally Posted by Gnasher
Clearly, you are unable to read as well ! I said that we were unaware that our friend's bitch was in season when we agreed to go round and meet her. Once there, as she was at or nearing the end of her season, and it was clear she was not going to allow actual copulation, we let them have a roar round for a few minutes, before beating a hasty retreat. Every time Tai mounted her, I would oi him and snap my fingers, and he would get off her.
Then , you say you decided to let them play, even though poor Tai wa clearly aroused,
I think I read it as you wrote it..
Originally Posted by Gnasher
No willing situation then Jackbox, just simple ignorance. We had no idea the bitch was in season. As to the responsibility or otherwise of the owner of the bitch, that is nothing to do with you, or me.
If you knew me just a fraction Jackbox, you would know how I would never ever use my dog in order to show off. I've nothing to show off about, he's the one who's obedient, well behaved, well balanced, calm, entirely trustworthy with babies, children, adults, other males - entire or otherwise - puppies etc.
Your right then onus was on the bitches owner to not let an entire male into her garden, regardless of where she wa sin her season.. and the onus was on you to leave before you got through the door, to stop any stress your dog would be in.
But all you seem to be concerned over is how good you are, and how your friends admired you .
You are right, I dont know you, one can only make assumptions on people from what we read!!!
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Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
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26-09-2009, 03:26 PM
Every time Tai mounted her, I would oi him and snap my fingers, and he would get off her.
Originally Posted by Tassle
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I think it is sentances like this that are causing the confusion.....what this implies is that Tai tried mutliple time to mount the bitch - therefore you were not stopping him - merely distracting him till he tried again.....
Excellent point, clearly the CM way was not working!!
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Location: UK
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26-09-2009, 03:27 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher
And yes, your interpretation of my belief towards the "stringing up" is as you say ... that Cesar is not stringing up the dog, the dog is fighting back and resisting the discipline of the lead. For the first time in their lives, the various dogs that we have seen being so-called strung up (your words, not mine) are having to learn some basic manners, control and discipline that they should have learned a very long time ago from their owners.
What you then see is a dog fighting for it's life (in its head).
That is what is so terribly sad and disgusting about CM. I wish more could see this, because that is the real truth.
He wants the dogs to fight so he can half choke them and then get them to submit - it's all about the submission for him. So, he wants the fight and causes it.
He can then do what he does and appear Mr Wonderful speaking calmly as he's mid choke ...
Wys
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Location: UK
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26-09-2009, 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by lilypup
i watched an episode last night with my 16 year old daughter. i turned the volume down and asked her to describe what she saw. she said she saw a frightened bulldog being kicked by cesar while skateboarders surrounded her.
she said that it was no wonder the dog wasn't focusing on the skaters as it was more concerned with where the next kick was coming from.
she also said if she saw someone doing that to their dog she'd call the police!
out of the mouths of babes...
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy
A `trainer` alpha rolled my Daisy - an agressive rescue I was working with to rehabilitate her. She did it so fast I didn`t have time to stop her. She had asked me to go to the other end of a tunnel and call her through. Fair enough. Daisy was muzzled. As I turned, Daisy jumped and barked, suddenly anxious that her person was walking away. The stupid woman threw herself on top and pinned her down and fought her. She was not a small woman and Daisy is not a particularly big German Shepherd.
Since then, I have to muzzle Daisy around trainers as she watches them suspiciously. In that instant she learned that people in that position hurt and frighten you. I have managed to get her to accept policemen, ticket inspectors, screeching children and skateboarders. But they didn`t attack her, did they?
Why would any normal person feel the need to physically subdue a small mammal who is totally dependent on them? I can only assume they enjoy the feeling of power. What does it prove - except that you are bigger and heavier than a dog. Wow. Big deal.
Originally Posted by Gnasher
CM's methods are so cruel that I managed with little effort to stop Tai mating a friend's Alaskan Malamute bitch who is nearing the end of her season (unbeknown to us, before I am slated
).Every time he attempted to climb on board, a swift "Oi" caused him to pause and look at me; a further snap of the fingers and a "down" resulted in a rapid dismount.
Even I was impressed ... I fully expected to have to at the very least grab his collar and pull him off her, or put him on the lead. But not, she and Tai had a lovely romp, mock fight and Catch-Me-If-You-Can race around our friends' garden.
Gosh I am so cruel
Sure I have pretty good voice control over Ben but whats the point of stressing him - its like he can walk nicely offlead but I clip him on the lead beside roads - I prefer to have him 100% safe rather than people marvel at how I can call him away from chasing a rabbit or something
Originally Posted by tinkladyv
I will try take this oppotunity to answer all the questions put to me as best i can.
I have used the Alpha roll and pinning with my sisters German Sheperd, she has tried trainer after trainer, all with different ideas, but no success. the GS jumps up with so much force he has knocked her and others over consistent with the ideas of the trainers etc but this was escalating out of control. We took advise from a trainer we new after discussion about motivation, circumstances etc and used the Alpha Roll. .
Why not just teach the dog an alternative behaviour?? Like sitting when greeting - its fairly easy to teach
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy
I found one reason why NGC are sensitive about the clip - the American Humane Assoc. (US version of the RSPCA) protested about his methods, and demanded they not show this episode - http://www.americanhumane.org/about-...whisperer.html
Originally Posted by Tassle
I have also been on the recieving end of people who have tried and failed with the Alpha rolling. One GSD who was exhibiting classic teenage behaviour - was being rolled by its owners of 4 weeks...it then bit one of the owners so badly she was unwilling to work with the dog and refused to rehome it as it was a dangerous dog. (It had jumped up and bitten her arm after being rolled on a pavement).
Originally Posted by Gnasher
We have darling, many times! As I have said before, I do not like the Illusion collar, I dislike any gadget, preferring to use Cesar's calm assertive methods, rather than his collar. As I have also said many times before, when we first took Tai on, he had good, basic training, but his manners were appalling. 24 hours of Cesar's techniques, and he was a different dog. With simple calm assertiveness, positive confident body language, consistency and firmness we turned a rather rude dog with no manners, into one who would sit and wait for his food until told he could eat, would not barge through doorways and down the stairs, and would not pull like an express train on the lead. That is why I cannot understand Cesar using choke chains - those of his client's who have chokes - or indeed, the Illusion collar. He can achieve the same thing without, because I have with Tai.
And yes, your interpretation of my belief towards the "stringing up" is as you say ... that Cesar is not stringing up the dog, the dog is fighting back and resisting the discipline of the lead. For the first time in their lives, the various dogs that we have seen being so-called strung up (your words, not mine) are having to learn some basic manners, control and discipline that they should have learned a very long time ago from their owners.
I totaly agree that in most of the situations the dogs are suffering because of the lack of training from the owners.
and of course the dog will be v confused if things that have worked in the past no longer work for it
Mia was totaly used to pulling on the lead, she had learnt that pulling ment she got somewhere faster. When it stoped working (when I got her) like any dog she tried harder to get it to work to start with - this is not bad bahviour it is just her using her brains - then when she realised that was not going to work she tried lots of other things until she did something I liked (sitting down) so she figured out that now if she wanted to manipulate me into walking she had to sit nicely
As for 'calmly stringing up' and all the rest
makes me think of the bit in 'Silence of the lambs' where Lector has the music playing and is calmly cutting up the guy
You could calmly shoot someone in the face, calmly hit them with a baseball bat, you might be feeling calm but the other person is feeling violence
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Location: West Sussex, UK
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26-09-2009, 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
As for 'calmly stringing up' and all the rest
makes me think of the bit in 'Silence of the lambs' where Lector has the music playing and is calmly cutting up the guy
You could calmly shoot someone in the face, calmly hit them with a baseball bat, you might be feeling calm but the other person is feeling violence
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Location: UK
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26-09-2009, 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs
As for 'calmly stringing up' and all the rest
makes me think of the bit in 'Silence of the lambs' where Lector has the music playing and is calmly cutting up the guy
You could calmly shoot someone in the face, calmly hit them with a baseball bat, you might be feeling calm but the other person is feeling violence
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Location: Essex, UK
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26-09-2009, 04:21 PM
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Location: dogsville
Joined: Jan 2006
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26-09-2009, 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher
CM's methods are so cruel that I managed with little effort to stop Tai mating a friend's Alaskan Malamute bitch who is nearing the end of her season (unbeknown to us, before I am slated
).Every time he attempted to climb on board, a swift "Oi" caused him to pause and look at me; a further snap of the fingers and a "down" resulted in a rapid dismount.
Even I was impressed ... I fully expected to have to at the very least grab his collar and pull him off her, or put him on the lead. But not, she and Tai had a lovely romp, mock fight and Catch-Me-If-You-Can race around our friends' garden.Gosh I am so cruel
Originally Posted by Gnasher
. As you very well must know, if you have an entire male, they will pay attention to a bitch if she is just about to come on, as well as during the height of the season, and again at the end. Whereas the bitch will not allow mating (usually, unless they are a complete tart like my GSP, and the GSP who came belting down the lane to Tai) EXCEPT when she is ripe for mating, this does not stop them flirting, teasing and being thoroughly tarty at the beginning and end, as we saw last night with our friend's bitch. As must be obvious to anyone with half a brain, of course I would not allow any dog of mine to just randomly mate a bitch. But if owners of bitches in season bring them out during this time, then they must expect entire males to show interest.
Originally Posted by Gnasher
I knew it ! You anti Cesar's just can't resist having a pop can you, about something that is nothing to do with the thread about whether CM is improving or not.
As I have already said, WE DID NOT KNOW THAT THE BITCH WAS IN SEASON WHEN WE WENT ROUND TO OUR FRIEND'S.
We actually went round to meet her, taking Tai with us of course because he comes everywhere with us. We left very shortly after the initial hellos, what a lovely dog, etc. etc., for the very reason that Tai was understandably aroused to say the least!
If one keeps an entire male, you have to expect this sort of thing of course, although it is one of my bugbears - people who continue to walk their bitches in public places when they are in season. Or rather, people who get irate at the owners of entire males who get very attentive towards their bitches when they insist on walking them in public places when they are in season.
Originally Posted by Gnasher
We use it m'dear, because it is so blatantly the case
You are pig sick because, thanks to CM, I can stop my dog mating a bitch Clearly, you are unable to read as well ! I said that we were unaware that our friend's bitch was in season when we agreed to go round and meet her. Once there, as she was at or nearing the end of her season, and it was clear she was not going to allow actual copulation, we let them have a roar round for a few minutes, before beating a hasty retreat. Every time Tai mounted her, I would oi him and snap my fingers, and he would get off her.
By the sound of it he actually pretty much ignored you as he kept going back for more.