Thats so out of order ive been ASKING for positive clips. Supernanny by the way would make a MUCH better dog training than CM.

Id actually like CM sent into our schools, as i dislike childern id be quite happy for him to straighten out Britians yob culture

question/Requestion POV

In alot of the recent clips, you see CM sort of touching , patting the dogs, stroking sometimes.

Now "personally" theres something wrong to me, to how he does it. Its not cruel or anything, dont get me wrong. But i just dont see a person comftable being with dogs in how he strokes them, if i saw just clips of him doing this id think hed never ever been around a dog. It jumps out a mile to me, prob because i am very tactile to my & other people dogs. Im talking about dogs now that he isnt CMing, but ones next to him whilst he is talking or whilst they are relaxing,

He sort of does a tentative flat hand head pat & a sort of head tickle. I think it makes him look very "novicey"

This is the sort of thing i see that leads me to doubt all this "energy". DOES he like dogs? or are they just a money making wagon he can expolit?

Spot on perceptive observation! I found his posture when working with dogs very good (not what he does with them though, sorry, LOL pro-camp). I too, noticed his interactions with dogs eg petting or when they lick him. He looks extremely uncomfortable and yes, a sheer novice. No experienced handler pats like that, unless as an illustration of what not to do! Very interesting, perhaps CM is a paradox.
Mary

Totally agree with this zoeybeau1. The problem with watching clips on Youtube is that you don't get the whole context. And by not researching more of CM's methods and philosophy you won't be able to understand his techniques. It's like someone trying to understand French without studying it!

If it is a dog you own then you can't let it get away with showing any aggression fullstop. If my dog started growling at me aggressively I certainly wouldn't back down because that's telling him that he's the boss over me.

If, however, I came across a dog in the street that I didn't know which acted aggressively towards me I would definately back off straight away.

I've seen the whole episode with the tennis racket and all CM was doing was using it to block the dog. He wasn't 'chasing' the dog with the racket. He just used it so he didn't get bitten.

If you'd take the time to find out more about him you would realise that this question is a bit silly. He's been around dogs all his life. He grew up on a farm in Mexico with a large pack of dogs. He went to America, penniless, and got a job in a grooming parlour, then a job in a kennels. Next he started to rehabilitate dogs (his first pack was comprised of Rotties) using the methods he had learned from his Grandfather and from what he had learned by observing a pack of domesticated dogs during his childhood and adolescent years.

Just because you don't like the way he pats a dogs head you think he exploits dogs for financial gain? I find this a bit far fetched. He just doesn't believe that people need to be drooling all over their dogs every second of the day for the dogs to be happy.

I see a lot of 'I think he looks like....' and 'I think this dog feels like....' These statements are purely subjective. As I keep saying you can put any slant you like on what you think someone looks like!

TBH I couldn't care less if you like CM or his methods. Makes no difference to me, I will always use his techniques. However, it gets my goat when people make totaly unfounded claims based on very little or no knowledge of the man or his techniques.

I said I was going to leave this thread alone but I just can't lol I need Dogsey Rehab lol

I never knew there was a 'correct' way to pat a dog! The trainers/behaviourists I've talked to have never instructed me on how to pat my dog, but I manage just fine.

I'm interested to know, what exactly in his facial expression don't you like and how is he 'patting incorrectly'?

[QUOTE=Sarah27;1350551]If it is a dog you own then you can't let it get away with showing any aggression fullstop. If my dog started growling at me aggressively I certainly wouldn't back down because that's telling him that he's the boss over me.


I am a big fan of Cesar Milan and I just wanted to say that his method should not be attempted while you are in the mindset that you are 'the boss', and that you are going to put the dog 'in its place.' That is frustration, and resentment towards the dog, not leadership. That is where many people get his method wrong, and call him old fashioned, but submission is the dog releasing the negative/frustrated/aggressive energy he has built up in him and then looking to your for leadership, not just the dog 'backing down' to something unpleasant. If you are unpleasant, negative, anxious, or don't really know what you're doing the dog will either not respond or could fight you back.
A leader is completely confident and therefore doesn't have to prove using force that he is 'the boss'. A pack of dogs/wolves wants and needs a leader so that the group moves forward. They move forward in an organised fashion to hunt, and with everything else that they do, because of the leader and the heirarchy, otherwise it would be a disorganised bunch of individuals all doing what they pleased, and this is not conductive to survival in a group. Dogs know this. Without a leader they just get anxious, muck around, get bored....That's what many pet dogs are like. If someone strong, calm and proud comes along with no frustration and anger towards them, they will respond. When someone like this corrects them in a quick and confident way they will submit and follow them. And they will feel 'on target,'- no longer bored, no longer frustrated or scared. If they don't respond then you are not actually being like what you are trying to be- maybe you are just too anxious about what you 'should' be doing, afraid to hurt your dog's feelings, or that other people will think you are being mean.
But as it has been said time and time again, and as I'm sure you know Cesar is not abusive, he uses the energy of an alpha wolf, and any tools or corrections etc which he uses, which people may object to, are used with this energy behind them and so do not hurt the dog.
It has been shown via experiments that the 'followers' in a wolf pack feel much more relaxed most of the time. The alpha wolves were shown to have the most stress hormones in their blood because they have a lot of responsibility. So a dog who has a leader is a happier dog.

Cesar Milan is that last person on earth you could call a novice. Is it just because he dares to do things which don't fit with the current retaliation against 'old fashioned' training methods? (not that he's a trainer anyway) Just because he isn't treating them and being 'nice' all the time?
If he walked into the house and cuddled the dogs, and fed them more excited energy by playing with them, smiling, and cooing at them- do you think he would look like a leader? Dogs aren't innocent, little cuddly babies that live on love. They need all that excited, aggressive, frustrated energy drained out, bad behaviours corrected, and then for the leader to help them move forward. Then the dog will be truly happy.
That's not to say you can never cuddle your dog, but they should have the exercise and discipline first.

Just watched this clip. I think Cesar done fine. All the struggling is on the dog's part- Cesar isn't really doing anything. Why should you not ask a dog such as this to submit? He's acting like a loony. Not only is the dog safer afterwards, but he's relaxed and happier. He had so much horrible energy built up in him. Teaching the dog to lie down might get the dog to lie down, but would not cure his bad psychological state, his aggression at all. What if he isn't motivated by treats, or won't stay lying down because he doesn't really respect you? Any calmness caused by lying down would only last until the dog got up again. Should these people just carrying on living with a dog that they never know when it's going to try and attack them? Or should they go and see a trainer who will no doubt spend the rest of it's life battling with this dog, with it kept in a muzzle, never walked, with the owners having to remember endless instructions, pleading with their dog to obey commands...