i have had doby from child hood and they have all been docked and most have lived over 10 years the oldease 16 years and never had spinal problams yes a few did start to go incontanat but they were old and most old dogs docked or not at old age have the same probalm

read my thread properly i didnt say i wanted to breed bull mastiff with no tails though it can be easly done i used it as a example please dont try a twist what i am saying,
yes but sometimes you have to out cross to achive this
breeders ahve been doing it for a long time and will still carry on
and dont you think breeders have allready created lots of breeds with health problams
and it dosnt all ways boil down to puppy farms haley
you are so quick to judge

First of all Doggydina all dogs are cross bred ok they havent been done for lots of years but they are all cross bred somewhere down the line to make someone elses perfect dog so whatever breed you have you have a cross breed of some nature not going into all the different dogs at this point but can do if needed. secondly has any one ever seen the damage a dog can do to its tail either car doors or just the fact the dog is so happy it wags the tail so madly they bang it constantly and damage the tail beyond repair and then have to go under anethestic for surgery to amputate. so please carry on trying to breed a dog with a better tail or stop the do gooders who dont see the real pain dogs can suffer because of tails and the risks of anethestics in especially large breed dogs. JMO

so true i have seen it and its very painful for a adult dog to go through that and take along time to heal

and that is my point all dogs we have today come from cross breeds and some are still crossed today but behind doors and still registard as pure breds

i have only got pugs now but did used to own other giant breeds that were originally docked but because of the new outrageous laws cant be docked and im sad not to own my big beauties but glad because they were ruined with the tail and i also have had some very old dogs that have had bladder control problems and they had tails. i am passionate on this because i lost one of my babies at 3yrs old on the table under an anesthetic having her tail amputated because she loved life and wagged it to death and when it finally split with banging it the blood was everywhere even on the ceiling not nice to see but there again she was a rescue abandoned because they got a new dog without a tail to correspond with the breed. there are two sides to every debate but try listening as passionately to the other persons opinion as your own, it all seems very one sided with out anyone really listening to what can go wrong and not maybes as in the incontinence this has still to be proven to me as i havent had it in a tailess dog in 20 yrs of owning them.JMO

I think if breeding could have produced a short tail it would've happened before now.

I don't see the difference in breeding a dog with no tail to breeding a dog to look like a wolf. Isn't/wasn't a lot of breeding to do with aesthetics?

Look at all the docked tailed JR's or spaniels or Dobbies that have been bred for years all with the common denomonator, docked tail, Skeletal is different from looks.

I see your getting an Akita soooon, have you owned one before ?

Most dogs when they get old have some sort of bladder control problems it's not just resricted to dogs with tails.

I am sorry for your loss but surely that is down the anesthetic and the person controling it in the operation it's not having the tail removed that killed your dog thats the reason why your dog was under anesthetic.

My boxer had a full tail and she kept on splitting hers at the end it wasn't as bad as yours of what you describe but nether the less it still split it's not nice to see but it healed time and time again i didn't feel the need to get it chopped off because it kept on splitting we just had to watch where she was banging the tail and greet her away from walls and othe rhard surfaces to lessen the risk of it splitting.

I have lived with both at the same time one with and one without both dogs nature was exatcly what you expect from a boxer nothing was different except the tail.

I don't think that there is any evidence supporting either view on that realy except that you are very fortunate to have a dog without bladder problems at all.