It's good to read that this chap doesn't use choke chains, but a collar up around the dog's neck can be almost worse, it is what Cesar Milan likes to use. Not saying your chap's doing this, in exactly the same way; but it does sound as if he is using the sensitivity of the throat area to his advantage ...

Actually that's a good point. I recall the Dogs Trust etc did stop sending their dogs to the police. I wonder if have altered that position? I've never looked to find out, but if so it would be a pretty good indication of the training methods situation.

I'd forgotten about the Lay Vistor's Scheme, thanks for the reminder

That's really great

I think everyone would agree on that. However, because we are tax payers and because also they are a certain section of the dog world, (ie one that should be subject to very close scrutiny), it is always worth discussing.

I do think that years ago police dog handlers/instructors used harsh methods like many of us did, sadly, back then. However like many of us, they should have changed and it seems that many of them have.This is excellent .

Hopefully a lot of the really bad ex instructors and handlers (there is one near to me and he's awful) are from the old school, literally.

Wys
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Good point Ramble. I would like to think that everything such organisations do is fully open to public scrutiny, but I don't see how it can be.

Sometimes outside advisors are used. I know of one who uses "balanced training" and shock collars to win prizes (his dogs burn out after a few years of being force tracked). I do wonder what exactly he is teaching when he is in the role of advising police instructors

Wys
x

I believe the RSPCA lifted its ban on dogs being donated to the police in 2002 or 2003. I can't speak for Dogs Trust, but know that both GSD Rescues I have been involved with do donate suitable dogs. However, to be fair, these dogs are few and far between. As Dyane said in an earlier post, most forces now either breed their own dogs or buy pups or part trained/trained working line dogs from Europe.

However, I think it does give a clear indication that, in general, police dog training and welfare has improved. The Animal Welfare Lay Visitor Scheme will have helped enormously in giving the general public confidence in police dog training and welfare once more.

Found this about Dogs Trust on Cheshire Constabulary website, so perhaps they donate on a force by force basis.

Welfare
All police dogs live at home with their handlers, which means the dog’s welfare is a 24-hours-a-day responsibility for the officer. The kennel facilities at the handler’s home are checked every year to ensure they continue to meet high standards.
On occasions when the handlers are unable to look after the dog, such as during holidays, they are cared for at the dog kennels at Cheshire Constabulary’s headquarters. A team of kennel hands takes over responsibility for feeding and exercising the dog.
The kennels have been inspected by the Dogs Trust who were impressed with the facilities and the care given to our dogs and, as a result, have donated dogs to us.
All dogs also get a thorough health check-up from a vet every 12 months.

There is a police dog instructor who is a member of Dogsey. I will bring this thread to his attention, so he can give his view on the matter.

That would be nice of him

I think it depends on the officer training as well as the place of training. I know an ex-police officer (dog handler/trainer) and he used purely positive methods. He said he found his dog was able to go from tracking down and catching a fugitive to doing a school talk with lots of children around with no need for a long time to wind down inbetween. He said a lot of his colleagues had dogs who weren't trained the same way and could only do 'hyped up' jobs in a day and then do the calmer ones separately. I thought that was an interesting comparison.

Does sound a bit nasty. I'm hardly an expert, but I would think it would vary depending on what you want to train the dog for? I mean, police training and (for want of a better term) civilian training are pretty different (I would imagine?).

When I was with West Mids Police I worked directly alongside the dog handlers and had the pleasure of seeing some of the m train at times. Fantastic to watch - not one of them were using e-collars or choke chains.

I didn't realise they had been banned though. I do know of one dog handler in the Police who still uses and advocates the use of both the prong collar and e-collar. He did this both with his own dogs at the SchH club I was at and with his "new" police dog. He is very aggressive in his approach and although he does get results, it take him a hell of a long time and clearly the dog doesn't trust him. If anything, his wife (also a police office but not a dog handler) can control and handle his working police dog better than he can on the field.

Another member of West Mids Police who isn't a dog handler but does have his own dogs uses a prong collar on his rottie. Absolutely no need for it because she's always done everything he's trained her to do without argument (for want of a better word). So if that's the case, why use it at all then?!

These things are relatively new training tools but the relationship between dogs and humans is many thousands of years old. With that in mind, we never had anything like this even 100 years ago, so why deliberatele produce and use items that we know are going to cause discomfort and pain to train a dog than can so easily be trained with more pleasant methods meaning that the trust between dog and handler is retained and both can actually enjoy their relationship, no?