This is an interesting point and whole heartedly agree.

I think it unlikely that the mother feels 'no distress' because at a hormonal level she would be programmed to care for her young as I understand has been proven with dogs. But wolves do seem very resilient. It is of course necessary to do this otherwise the pups will not imprint properly on humans. Wolf pups that spend too much time with their mothers before being taken by humans find it hard to cope with the human environment and can develop great difficulty in coping with everyday experiences.

What I find odd is those that would want to keep an animal that needs to be (effectively) caged all its life; as is necessary with wolves and high contents wolf-dogs.

Ego extension I think. Then you can 'boast' that you have a wolf type animal who looks up to you.

To me all dogs have their own magic and their own ability to join me in being close to the earth and to spirit.

rune

My friend in the States lives openly with his wolf. He takes her shopping in the local town, and she is extremely popular. She is to all intents and purposes as a normal dog. Ethics aside as to whether it is acceptable or moral to take cubs off their mother at such a young age, (and this does need to be done because otherwise your wolf pup will never truly accept or be comfortable in human society - he will bond with his immediate family, but will always be nervous or even terrified of any other people), I am quoting here a successful example of how successful this relationship can be. Whereas wolves and dogs are the same species, tens of thousands of years of domestication has meant of course that your average dog is very different from his ancestor, still genetically the same of thought, but the hard wiring - the programming - is different particularly in respect of how the human species is viewed. In wolves, humans are to be feared, and they are hard wired to be terrified of humans and to steer well clear of them for eminently good reasons. This is why with captive-bred wolves, cubs must be taken away from mum at the latest by 3 weeks to have a good chance of a normal "doggie" life in the human environment, to all intents and purposes as a pet dog. I am not arguing as to the ethics and morality of this, I am merely stating fact. If you collected your wolf at 5 or 6 weeks, you stand a very greatly reduced chance of having a normal dog-type relationship with your wolf. 8 or 9 weeks, forget it.

Whereas I have an interest in North American Indian history, I do not possess any indian artefacts such as dreamcatchers, nor do I call my dogs by indian names as is popular with wolf-type dogs! My wolfy boy went by the beautifully simple name of Hal (actually named after the computer in 2001 because he was stroppy and answered back!)

I think you are subscribing to the theory that wolves have some sort of special fear of humans. Don't flatter yourself. Wolves are innately cautious: it is how they survive. I have also read that wolves in America have 'learnt' to be afraid of people because they have more guns there. I guess they must teach this in puppy school? It obviously fails judging by the numbers that get shot.

I think you are totally delusional if you think a wolf can have a 'normal doggy life' in the human environment.

This makes sense, although, as you say, it begs the question of the morality/ethics of doing so. Personally I think it is appalling.

We have a similar interest in all aboriginal cultures which live "in" nature rather than try to dominate it. Indeed, our kennel affix is Dreamcatcher. We do not extend this interest into a romanticised attitude towards our dogs however. We didn't "get into" huskies because they are "near wolves" etc etc, but because they are beautiful, intelligent dogs which are incredible athletes. Likewise, our dogs have pretty non-esoteric names like Basil, Trader, Gus, Diva etc etc.

Mick

You contradict yourself here; if they are 'hardwired', then early socialisation surely cannot change the wiring?

You might find this brief article interesting, as it talks about the gene difference between domesticated and wild canidae:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...om-a-wolf.html
Be aware though of the difference between 'tame' and 'domesticated'.

I'm off now to dust my dreamcatcher

Could I ask Gnasher, for who was the relationship successful. Did anyone ask the wolf. As yo will probably gather, I am fiercely against keeping a wild animal as a pet, particularly something like a wolf, no matter how successful it may appear on the suface. We have so many great breeds of dogs, why oh why can't folks choose a dog. I have lived and worked in Canada, admittedly in a City, but close to the Rockies and have seen where wolves should be living - they need space, space, space and are not meant to be kept in cages, on leads, in zoos or anywhere else. I hope man will not come to completely destroy their natural living space. It makes me very angry how arrogant human beings can be.

Hello there again, Being a female, I threw the bit in about "macho" to see if anyone would "bite" - You equitted yourself quite well Wolfman. I don't have a dreamcatcher, they are only a physical talisman but I know the dreamcather story is quite lovely and was (maybe still is) used to teach a lesson through a fable - Folks need to keep one in their head and use it.

I only mentioned the dreamcatcher story as it was absolutely true and came from somebody with 40 years experience- funny how defensive people become though when they confuse (by choice?) an observation with a criticism. As an amateur student of history and humankind, I like to remain a realist but have enjoyed the Cherokee version of the creation myth far more than any other I have read

As for macho; this is sadly very true of a small element, however the difficulty of keeping a wolf (against keeping a macho breed of dog) means that seldom is it a successful combination.

Why should I be flattering myself !! Just the opposite ... I am appalled to think that any animal should be terrified of me. Wolves are sadly hard-wired to be afraid of people. Not just cautious - it is far more than that. Eskimos in the past knew that if they had any chance of taking a cub from the wild, from the den, they needed to do this before the eyes were open.

And seeing as I personally know someone who has a pure wolf as a pet, and the relationship is so far going very well, I can't accept your diagnosis of my being delusional !!