I have asked before in Morrisons but they didn't have anything and said they dont really ever. I do buy chicken wings from there though. and liver,and they have a good reduced section for stuff coming up to date which I often pick some things up in, like lamb ribs.....
Once you get into raw feeding and work out where to get the stuff from I find it really quite straight forward, and so much nicer to see your dog actually ENJOY their food

This was the only way I could get my little Terrier cross to eat, only he got Burns rather than Skinners cos he was small which was why I could afford it!

Morrisons have down right refused to give me anything saying they're not allowed to and that it's dangerous to give dogs raw bones! Whatever!

New2dogs, I would go with either the ND idea with a kibble or go for raw with Natural Instinct. The latter is certainly expensive and I don't entirely agree with commercial raw companies, but for someone like yourself with a fussy, small dog it sounds ideal. Good luck.

[QUOTE=Labman;1910325]Some dogs you can wean off canned food, and some you must outwait. If the dog never did eat very well, and has seen the vet since the problem existed, you may be over feeding it. A vet check still won't hurt. Many dogs will wolf down more than is good for them and look for more. Others refuse to eat more than than they need. Your dog definitely should be narrower at the waist than the hips and chest. You should be able to easily feel the ribs, but not see them. Each dog is different. Standard recommendations are a good place to start, but each dog must have its food and exercise adjusted to its individual needs. This includes puppies. Many come from the breeder overweight. Little butter balls are cute, but leaner ones are healthier. the bigger the breed, the more important keeping them lean as puppies. You may want the vet to confirm your judgment. Adjust the dogs food and exercise as needed to reach its ideal body condition. Some German Shepherds and other breeds may refuse to eat enough to completely hid their ribs. As long as you are feeding a concentrated, meat based chow, the best thing is to accept it.

The worst thing you can do is to bribe a dog with rich foods into eating more than it needs. Instead, Put down the dish with what the dog should eat, and give it 15 minutes to eat. Then take it up. Do not give it anything to eat until its next scheduled meal. In a few days, it should be eating what it needs. Continue to check its ribs and adjust the food as needed. This is not easy. I had a Shepherd go 3 days on a few nibbles. I was a wreck, but she was fine. It is almost unknown for a healthy dog not to eat what it needs. Unfortunately, in too many cases, it is less than the package says, and less than the owner thinks the dog should have. Many dogs are quite good at holding out for tastier chow. Like kids, sometimes it calls for tough love.[/QUOTE

I do not think I would agree with you Labman when you say that you should easily be able to feel the ribs and see the waistline in puppies. I have always believed that a pup should be well covered and have a little surplus (in case of puppy illnesses). Once a pup gets to the gangly stage things become a little different, but a pup straight from a breeder should be well covered and plump. They have a lot of growing to do in a relatively short period. My vet told me that a pup who is well covered is far better than a thin pup who has not much in the way of reserve. As for feeding, a pup needs to eat frequently (4 meals a day at least once weaned - when they are at the milkbar they eat to capacity and need). I would also certainly add a little tinned to the dried food and also make sure it was well wetted down - especially for a puppy and even for an older dog. I think it is a grave error to be so dogmatic in specifying how dogs and puppies should be managed - Even though basic management is broadly the same, dogs are all different (as are humans anbd owners) and it is a measure of our intelligence that we are able to adapt sensibly to their needs.

There was a careful scientific study study done a few years ago and published in the JAVMA. It eliminated all doubt that dogs kept lean live longer, active lives. It is also well proven that large breed puppies have fewer joint problems when kept lean. This is not based on one person's experience. I am talking proven, scientific fact.

There was an extensive discussion of weight in a recent newsletter from a service dog school.

''Obesity is the number one nutritional disease affecting dogs. It's estimated that 25-45% of dogs in the US are obese. Studies have shown that joint and locomotive problems increase by 57%, circulatory problems by 74%, respiratory problems by 52%, skin problems by 40% and cancer by 50% in animals that are overweight.

Large breed dogs that are overweight also are more prone to developing hip dysplasia. Obesity is especially dangerous for young puppies, as their underdeveloped frame cannot support the extra poundage that it must carry.''

Your vet is badly out of touch with modern dog care.

given that obesity is out of control in the humans over in the US Im surprised that the stats for dogs are so low.

Do you have any links to scientific studies/documents that demonstrate this please?

Can I ask why you don't agree with commercial raw companies? Just out of interest

Also as the OP is feeding Orijen, it might even work out the same price, if not cheaper for to go for Natural Instinct.

This is not a new idea, Kealy, et al. "Effects of limited food consumption on the incidence of hip dysplasia in growing dogs." JAVMA, v201, n6 Sept 15, 1992

I will PM you a link too commercial to post here.

I know that there have been scientific studies on humans that have shown a correlation between calorie restriction and a longer life - there are indications that it leads to a decline in DNA damage which is at the heart of the aging process and behind diseases such as cancer. I see no reason why this correlation should not also be seen in dog health as well.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16529878

On the Millie front, I have just returned from a local butcher who DOES sell bags of bones for dogs and they have them fresh practically every day apparently so that is good news and I bought a couple of bags. I have also got some chicken wings . . . so armed with my Ian Billinghurst book, I'm good to go!

Right - the cat is sabotaging the keyboard so on that note . . .

Labman as far as I am aware no one here has suggested overfeeding adult dogs just making sure puppies eat and eat the right number of meals.

Ask any vet in this country and they will tell you puppies should be fed little and often, this means four meals a day for a puppy up to the age of 3 months, it doesn't mean overfeeding a puppy. Neither should they be fed too few meals like the two meals a day you frequently suggest.

Tell me Labman while we are on the subject of joint problems and puppy health what does the AVMA say about the methods used by yourself and your service dog school to raise puppies,
..what does is say about depriving a puppy of water for 16 hours a day,
..what does it say about keeping a 7 week old puppy in a tiny space on wire mesh for 16 hours a day and reducing its intake of food and and water to prevent it soiling in the crate. Depriving a puppy of access to water is cruelty and standing on mesh can't be good for a puppy's feet and there is a risk the nails will get caught in the mesh,
..what does it say about chaining up a small puppy so then when it is eventually let out of its crate it still doesn't have the freedom to move around, this excessive restriction on a small puppy can't be good for the development of its joints or its general health and wellbing,
..what does it say about lifting tiny puppies up in the air by their middles leaving their lower bodies unsupported until they cease to struggle so you can have the satisfaction of forcing them to submit and assuring your dominance, this can't be good for their small bodies,
..what does it say about using a mouse trap to stop a puppy jumping up, a risk to tiny noses and paws

A good quality diet fed in the correct amounts is just one part of growing a healthy well balanced puppy.
Before you start lecturing people here about canine care and welfare go away and consider the way you and your service dog school treat puppies.