If you have an unhappy wolf, you know about it! According to my friend, she is fine and they are inseparable. She loves all the attention she gets, especially from the children, whenever they go into the local town. I love my wolfy boys - I would love to have a Czech Wolfdog or a Saarloos but time and money prevent me at present.

Like you, I would much prefer to see wolves in the wild. But we killed the last wild wolf in this country back in the 16th century! Having said that, I think wolves can live a captive life and be healthy and content enough to breed ... wolves will not breed if they are not healthy, so clearly the packs that exist at wildlife parks, and Shaun Ellis's pack, must be reasonably content else they would not breed. I personally would love to see wild wolves returned to these islands - keep all these pesky rabbits down - but whether the Scottish experiment will ever come to fruition, I don't know. Does anyone know if they have actually released any wolves yet?

You still miss the point. If they were 'hard wired' then no amount of early socialisation could change that. They would always be afraid of people no matter what socialisation was to occur.

As we know wolves can be socialised towards people, therefore we know that wolves are not hard wired to be afraid of people. Quod erat demonstrandum.
Thus we can deduce, backed by research, that wolves have a developmental period in which they can be socially acclimatised with another species. It has been proven that after about 4 months this period ends and their innate caution (or fear as you might call it) for all things not previously experienced takes hold. This does not make them 'domestic'.

Unfortunately 'internet friends' don't much count towards scientific evidence. Especially when the body of evidence presented by established scientists (including L. David Mech's own failure to bring up a wolf as a domestic pet) suggest heavily against. This is also backed up by ALL major the wolf and wolf-dog rescue organisations in the USA. Though there are some breeders who claim otherwise and some authors who claim to have pet wolves that actually look a bit like Malamutes...

I thought Czech Wolfdogs and Sarloos were DOGS not wolves. Yes captive wolves can be fed, watered and looked after and they may "appear" to be fine and may well breed, they will certainly mate with a dog, but that does not mean it is right to do it. Yes the wolves were exterminated from this country in the 16th Century and most places are far too densly populated to be able to support "wild" wolves. We need the space. I hope you are joking, but if they were re-introduced here I am sure you know they would not confine themselves to the "pesky rabbits" but would also take things we want - then what - would you round them up and put them back ino their cages, or would we all be prepared to share our livestock etc. on a one for me one for the wolf basis. We have gone too far with what we believe to be "civilisation" in these islands. Wolves should remain (or be re-introduced into) the few truly wild places left, which we should preserve for them and other species. Other than that man should not interfere. However, I fear that is too much to hope for. As for being appalled that any animal would be frightened of you - I think you should rejoice that some of them still are. That is what saves them from us. There is an old aboriginal adage - and I don't know where it came from which says - "tread the earth lighty". Think about it.

spot on

If you accept that wolves and dogs are different then the Czech and Saarloos are entre les deux, they do contain wolf genes that are expressed in both appearance and behaviour to a greater or lesser degree. Both are accepted dog breeds. Both breeds differ in behaviour. As breeds they breed true to type, unlike the type of wolf-dog generally referred to in The USA, which can be any mix and can exhibit any variation of behaviour.

There has never been any plan to free wolves into the wilds of the UK but there has been a proposal to build a 50,000 acre fenced park in Scotland at the Allerdale Estate. This would create a unique attraction in Europe though there has been much opposition to this by groups like the Ramblers, who feel that the fencing impinges upon their liberties. Currently the Estate is building a couple of small wolf enclosures for privileged guests of the Estate so they can gawp at a few captive wild animals.

Unfortunately man is incapable of treading lightly and is obliged by his own greed to rip up the earth and exploit it for his own pathetic gain.

I do accept that wolves and dogs are different - evolution has moulded them so and they have been very successful (by this I mean time, adaptation, selection and breeding usually for a purpose desired by men). I do not know much about Czechs and Sarloos - I know that they are classified as dogs and are different "breeds" from each other. I understand that their "wolf" blood is much fresher than more established breeds and it is a very interesting subject, but I do not know if they are still, or should remain "betwixt and between" as you mention. I would prefer that they are dogs. I think you have chosen the more attractive breed with your Sarloos, although I am sure someone will disagree.

50,000 acres does not seem very much to have very many wolves in Scotland and I sincerely hope it does not happen.

You are right, history seems to have proved that man is incapable of treading lightly, but he is capable of thinking about what he is doing and the consequences. I myself have done my fair share of being greedy and exploiting for gain. (Gotta survive). Guilty yer 'onner !! - but I am going into rehab. to see if I can learn to modify it.

By the way it has been said that if the dog as a species were to return to the wild (and enough could survive long enough) it would take very few "dog" generations - only 8 or 10 I think, for them to turn, back into a "type" of wolf (albeit probably a funny looking one). What would it be feral dog or wolf ? - What do you think ? Should we try it up in Scotland - would it earn us a buck or two ? and would anyone be interested in paying to have a look at them ?

yip! me those saarloos are related to heffalumps with those ears

i know someone

i see csv's as a dog breed not a pet wolf,albeit sometimes a very raw one

No, what I meant to say was that they are hard-wired after a certain age/or when their eyes open. The Eskimos used to take 1 wolf cub from a den of wild wolves, always leaving at least 2, never leaving none or just 1 on its own ... before the eyes opened, because they knew that if the first thing that wolf cub saw when his eyes opened was a human, then they would be able to "tame" that wolf cub. However, if they waited until the eyes were fully opened, and then took a cub, that cub would never truly be "tame". This is what I meant, but obviously did not explain it very well. You can "over-ride" the wiring if you have your wolfcub at a young enough age. For instance, to take Shaun Ellis's captive bred wolves, any cubs bred at Combe Martin will not be fearful of man because they will have seen Shaun and other humans from the moment their eyes opened. I don't know whether Shaun handles his cubs from birth, but if he does then he is on a winner all the way, his wolves will be aloof towards humans, but not fearful, just wary of strangers, but as loving and playful as any labrador with their human "pack".

I take your point about David Mech, but so far my friend in the States has proved otherwise ... as have many other wolf owners in the States. Do we know how old David Mech's wolf was when he first had it? If it was older than 3 weeks, then he was almost certainly doomed to fail.

I agree exactly with what you say ... but what a condemnation of us humans in the British Isles, don't you think? We exterminate a species through ignorance, fear and misunderstanding ... and then, when we have learned that far from being Little Red Riding Hood and Granny Eaters, wolves are gentle, shy creatures, shunning man, we say what you have just said. It may be true words you speak, but how sad is that. I for one would LOVE to see wolves reintroduced to the Highlands of Scotland, but they would have to be protected from idiots who thought it might be cool to go wolf hunting. I think it is so sad that we should write off the very species that is responsible for us humans being "top of the tree" - the theory being that without the dog ... or rather the wolf ... man would never have been able to become (so-called) civilised and to dominate the world. I think the horse should be added as well, but that aside, frankly I think it is a real poor show that the wolf has to be confined to only living in those areas where they cannot impinge at all on humans. How ghastly is that, how bloody tragic.

Another good post - and you are spot on, dogs would take very few generations to turn back into a wolf, and not as many as one might think to eventually end up looking like a wolf again.

What havoc man has wrought on the magnificent wolf, nature can split asunder in a relatively short time.