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Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
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26-09-2009, 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher 
We have darling, many times! As I have said before, I do not like the Illusion collar, I dislike any gadget, preferring to use Cesar's calm assertive methods, rather than his collar. As I have also said many times before, when we first took Tai on, he had good, basic training, but his manners were appalling. 24 hours of Cesar's techniques, and he was a different dog. With simple calm assertiveness, positive confident body language, consistency and firmness we turned a rather rude dog with no manners, into one who would sit and wait for his food until told he could eat, would not barge through doorways and down the stairs, and would not pull like an express train on the lead. That is why I cannot understand Cesar using choke chains - those of his client's who have chokes - or indeed, the Illusion collar. He can achieve the same thing without, because I have with Tai.
Then maybe you ought to inform CM that his invention the Illusion Collar is not needed.. as you have achieved results without resorting to their use.
And yes, your interpretation of my belief towards the "stringing up" is as you say ... that Cesar is not stringing up the dog, the dog is fighting back and resisting the discipline of the lead. For the first time in their lives, the various dogs that we have seen being so-called strung up (your words, not mine) are having to learn some basic manners, control and discipline that they should have learned a very long time ago from their owners.
Of cause the dog is fighting back, wouldn`t you if someone put a tight rope round your neck, held it up restricting the give in the rope... what would your reaction be,
Some would call the reaction to such treatment as inflicting trauma to themselves, or throwing a hissy fit, because they cant do as they want.
What I see is something fighting for survival, just as those who where hanged (in the bad old days) would do , when a rope was placed round their neck, and the trap door was released, they fought...
It amazes me, that some cant see that, and the onus of the dog struggling is put on the dog , because he/she wont give in.
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Location: East Midlands, UK
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,775
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26-09-2009, 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble
I currently have a bitch in season here...with an entire male and spayed female. The spayed female has tried to hump the inseason bitch...but my boy thinks he is the only gay in the village so isn't interested..infact the complete opposite, he really isn't liking her.
That said....he is being kept WELL away from her as I am not risking anything. I am surprised you would allow an entire male and inseason bitch to 'play' in the garden. Not entirly convinced that is fair on either dog to be honest.
It does amaze me that people cannot see CM stringing dogs up and choking them. The evidence is there...plain for all to see. I am bemused by it to be honest.
As I have already said, WE DID NOT KNOW THAT THE BITCH WAS IN SEASON WHEN WE WENT ROUND TO OUR FRIEND'S.
We actually went round to meet her, taking Tai with us of course because he comes everywhere with us. We left very shortly after the initial hellos, what a lovely dog, etc. etc., for the very reason that Tai was understandably aroused to say the least!
If one keeps an entire male, you have to expect this sort of thing of course, although it is one of my bugbears - people who continue to walk their bitches in public places when they are in season. Or rather, people who get irate at the owners of entire males who get very attentive towards their bitches when they insist on walking them in public places when they are in season.
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Location: East Midlands, UK
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,775
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26-09-2009, 02:47 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
Of cause the dog is fighting back, wouldn`t you if someone put a tight rope round your neck, held it up restricting the give in the rope... what would your reaction be,
Some would call the reaction to such treatment as inflicting trauma to themselves, or throwing a hissy fit, because they cant do as they want.
What I see is something fighting for survival, just as those who where hanged (in the bad old days) would do , when a rope was placed round their neck, and the trap door was released, they fought...
It amazes me, that some cant see that, and the onus of the dog struggling is put on the dog , because he/she wont give in.
I guess we will just have to differ.
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Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
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26-09-2009, 02:54 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher
You just have to twist everything don't you, you just cannot accept that actually Cesar's methods could possibly work! Sorry Jackbox, but your jealousy is oozing out of every word you have just typed! I am so sorry that I have such good control over Tai that I can get him to pause when he has been accosted by a bitch in season. It must be desperately irritating to you to know that using Cesar's cruel methods I can achieve this
Originally Posted by Gnasher
I NEVER said that I would allow a male dog of mine to mate with a bitch at the end of her season! You really must learn not to put words into people's mouths.
Originally Posted by Gnasher
As you very well must know, if you have an entire male, they will pay attention to a bitch if she is just about to come on, as well as during the height of the season, and again at the end. Whereas the bitch will not allow mating (usually, unless they are a complete tart like my GSP, and the GSP who came belting down the lane to Tai) EXCEPT when she is ripe for mating, this does not stop them flirting, teasing and being thoroughly tarty at the beginning and end, as we saw last night with our friend's bitch.
Originally Posted by Gnasher
As must be obvious to anyone with half a brain, of course I would not allow any dog of mine to just randomly mate a bitch. But if owners of bitches in season bring them out during this time, then they must expect entire males to show interest.
But you would allow an in season bitch and an entire male to play together in the garden,
That is not far to either of them, even if you have such control over your dog, he is still going to be stressed being so near an in season bitch, a situation you willingly placed him in, not a bitch with an irresponsible owner allowing any dog to get to her.
So I guess a little of CM is rubbing off on you... placing dog s in stressful situations , so you can show off your control
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Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
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26-09-2009, 02:57 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher
I knew it ! You anti Cesar's just can't resist having a pop can you, about something that is nothing to do with the thread about whether CM is improving or not.
As I have already said, WE DID NOT KNOW THAT THE BITCH WAS IN SEASON WHEN WE WENT ROUND TO OUR FRIEND'S.
We actually went round to meet her, taking Tai with us of course because he comes everywhere with us. We left very shortly after the initial hellos, what a lovely dog, etc. etc., for the very reason that Tai was understandably aroused to say the least!
If one keeps an entire male, you have to expect this sort of thing of course, although it is one of my bugbears - people who continue to walk their bitches in public places when they are in season. Or rather, people who get irate at the owners of entire males who get very attentive towards their bitches when they insist on walking them in public places when they are in season.
But the owner of the bitch did, surely
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Location: West Sussex, UK
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,983
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26-09-2009, 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
Of cause the dog is fighting back, wouldn`t you if someone put a tight rope round your neck, held it up restricting the give in the rope... what would your reaction be,
Some would call the reaction to such treatment as inflicting trauma to themselves, or throwing a hissy fit, because they cant do as they want.
What I see is something fighting for survival, just as those who where hanged (in the bad old days) would do , when a rope was placed round their neck, and the trap door was released, they fought...
It amazes me, that some cant see that, and the onus of the dog struggling is put on the dog , because he/she wont give in.
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Location: East Midlands, UK
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,775
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26-09-2009, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
Please, why do people always use the "your jealous " argument to try to defend their opinions
A lesson you need to take on board yourself... You said the bitch was at the end of her season and your male was mounting her.... I did not say that.
On that we agree, but I think I said that
But you would allow an in season bitch and an entire male to play together in the garden,
That is not far to either of them, even if you have such control over your dog, he is still going to be stressed being so near an in season bitch, a situation you willingly placed him in, not a bitch with an irresponsible owner allowing any dog to get to her.
So I guess a little of CM is rubbing off on you... placing dog s in stressful situations , so you can show off your control
You are pig sick because, thanks to CM, I can stop my dog mating a bitch Clearly, you are unable to read as well ! I said that we were unaware that our friend's bitch was in season when we agreed to go round and meet her. Once there, as she was at or nearing the end of her season, and it was clear she was not going to allow actual copulation, we let them have a roar round for a few minutes, before beating a hasty retreat. Every time Tai mounted her, I would oi him and snap my fingers, and he would get off her.
No willing situation then Jackbox, just simple ignorance. We had no idea the bitch was in season. As to the responsibility or otherwise of the owner of the bitch, that is nothing to do with you, or me.
If you knew me just a fraction Jackbox, you would know how I would never ever use my dog in order to show off. I've nothing to show off about, he's the one who's obedient, well behaved, well balanced, calm, entirely trustworthy with babies, children, adults, other males - entire or otherwise - puppies etc.
But sorry, I forgot, I really must try and remember. The poor lambkin is strung up, choked, kicked and generally abused and traumatised. He's lying here at my feet as I type cowering and flinching away from me every time I make a move towards him
(note the green colour
)
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Location: West Sussex, UK
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,983
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26-09-2009, 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher
If you knew me just a fraction Jackbox, you would know how I would never ever use my dog in order to show off. I've nothing to show off about, he's the one who's obedient, well behaved, well balanced, calm, entirely trustworthy with babies, children, adults, other males - entire or otherwise - puppies etc.
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Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
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26-09-2009, 03:13 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher
We use it m'dear, because it is so blatantly the case
You are pig sick because, thanks to CM, I can stop my dog mating a bitch
Originally Posted by Gnasher
Clearly, you are unable to read as well ! I said that we were unaware that our friend's bitch was in season when we agreed to go round and meet her. Once there, as she was at or nearing the end of her season, and it was clear she was not going to allow actual copulation, we let them have a roar round for a few minutes, before beating a hasty retreat. Every time Tai mounted her, I would oi him and snap my fingers, and he would get off her.