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Tang
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04-07-2013, 06:17 PM
Trouble most of that makes sense to me.

A lot of the 'Norway' stuff doesn't ...

More dogs neutered since the ban?
Shouldn't be done for anything other than medical reasons but can get it done if the dog shows aggression to humans or other dogs (going directly against what you've posted) they are saying it can be done only AFTER the dog has shown aggression - not to try to prevent it appearing.

Then all the exceptions to the neutering ban - animals are animals it isn't only DOGS that are animals. But it's OK to neuter cats, horses, pigs, working dogs. And even non working dogs if you have a 'good reason'.
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Trouble
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04-07-2013, 06:35 PM
Having read the Nordic link, a lot of it is personal opinion of the vet and all our personal opinions are based on our own experiences tbf. I've had several entire dogs and none of them were aggressive and yet they talk as though an entire dog is an aggressive dog, Twaddle.
The references to the USA aren't much help either as they are opposite ends of the spectrum. The USA had/has a huge problem with dogs roaming free and therefore lots of unwanted puppies. I can see why they thought neutering everything is the answer. Norway has no stray dog problem so holds opposing views. I can't say I think either is right.
I think we all have to try and understand all the pro's and cons of neutering and make our own decisions. Vets are not behaviourists so only really see it from a medical point of view. I'd be more inclined to go by my own experiences and those of behaviourists who deal with the problems on a daily basis.
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Tang
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04-07-2013, 06:43 PM
I've had 2 bitches spayed but not to prevent them having pups that wouldn't happen unless I wanted it to.

I've had every cat I've ever owned neutered whether male or female. I did not use to get my bitch dogs neutered even though I had no intention of breeding them because they weren't allowed to roam and no way would they get accidentally pregnant and I couldn't see the point of surgery for nothing as it seemed to me.

Then, after my last GSD had mammary tumours and pyometra and died and I was told spaying goes a long way to preventing these problems - I did have my next dog spayed and wish I'd known about that earlier. I've had my current dog spayed too for the same reasons.

But I guess you are more likely to spay a bitch to try to prevent mammary tumours and womb diseases if you've had one die from those things - so I suppose I am biased. I still cannot imagine I'd have a male dog neutered - but nor would I let him be responsible for unwanted pregnancies! Not unless I was convinced that it would prevent similar serious problems arising in future in a male dog (moot point really - have never wanted a male dog!)
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Trouble
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04-07-2013, 07:05 PM
Yes but educating Joe Public to stop their dogs fro roaming was clearly something the USA couldn't manage. They still have a big problem with dogs roaming free just these days there are fewer of them capable of procreating. Norwegians obviously have a different mentality.
One of my Bitches is spayed and 3 are not. One because I believe her issues would likely be aggravated by spaying and the other 2 are too young but they are older than the age advocated for spaying. End of the day they and their health are my responsibility not my vets. He can advise, I listen and make up my own mind, no different to the ongoing debate regarding vaccinations really.
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Trouble
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04-07-2013, 07:28 PM
I forgot to add, Syd was the first male dog I had ever had castrated, and I have to live with the fact it probably contributed to his early demise due to bone cancer. I'm not beating myself up about it I did what I thought was best at the time but there appears to be a link.
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zoeyvonne
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05-07-2013, 06:52 AM
Thanks guys, very interesting reading, seems the vets in my area are spouting what is now old theories, would be nice to feel supported by them instead of being pushed in to something that makes you uncomfortable, Samson will keep his bits and I will get trained in how to handle his ways
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mjfromga
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05-07-2013, 07:35 AM
I'm with most people here. I had Brownie for 15 years, never neutered and though extremely territorial of his own yard and disliked male APBT dogs, was not in general dog aggressive at all.

NO humping people or items/objects and was even able to restrain himself around Jadey with a few "no" commands, who is an unspayed bitch.

No testicular cancer or anything like that. None of the weight gain that can come with it, and though he did die of cancer... it was a mast cell tumor, not bone cancer, which is linked to neutering.

He was wary of men, as am I... but he loved women, kids and many men... too. As far as temperament goes, there wasn't a solid reason to have him done.. I doubt it would have done anything.

For health reasons? Not a chance... one of the healthiest dogs I've ever seen. My current dog Nigredo was neutered by the shelter before I got him. I got him at 3 months, mind you.

His hips are definitely bad as he cannot sit straight and shows every last sign I've seen of dysplasia, which is linked to early neutering... no way to tell quite yet. I'll have to have him x-rayed at the end of the year. It's tough keeping him in shape, too.

It's also said that early neuter dogs struggle with learning to lift their legs to pee, causing wee covered feet/tummies. He's pushy with Jade, but generally not a bossy or overly confident dog.

He barks when people walk into the yard... so just as territorial as any other dog. I highly doubt that neutering him was needed or will ever help him with anything. I'd certainly never recommend that people just run and do it.

Jade hasn't had a heat since I've gotten her and never allowed any males to mount her anyway as she's FAR too fearful to be mounted. Not worried about accidental breeding in the least. Left her alone with Brownie many times, knowing she'd never let him mount her.

I really don't think that neutering males is such a good idea most of the time. If you cannot be sure your dog can't breed... sure... go for it. As far as curbing behavioral problems however; it's better to train these problems out, as there is no guarantee that neutering a dog will help anyway.
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Fivedogpam
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05-07-2013, 08:16 AM
Originally Posted by mjfromga View Post
His hips are definitely bad as he cannot sit straight and shows every last sign I've seen of dysplasia, which is linked to early neutering... no way to tell quite yet. I'll have to have him x-rayed at the end of the year. It's tough keeping him in shape, too.

It's also said that early neuter dogs struggle with learning to lift their legs to pee, causing wee covered feet/tummies. He's pushy with Jade, but generally not a bossy or overly confident dog.
I've never heard of that link. I always thought that your dog either had HD or didn't.

My 20 month old is still entire and has only just started to cock his leg - to be honest I would prefer he didn't - but he is doing both at the moment.
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Tang
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05-07-2013, 08:27 AM
Originally Posted by Fivedogpam View Post
I've never heard of that link. I always thought that your dog either had HD or didn't.

My 20 month old is still entire and has only just started to cock his leg - to be honest I would prefer he didn't - but he is doing both at the moment.
5dogpam - put this into google

increased risk of hip dysplasia with neutering

and you will see the studies done on the subject.

I read that hip dysplasia is one of the most studied veterinary conditions in dogs so I am sure there are all sorts of theories put forward about it as well as the traditional reasons given for it.
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Julie
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05-07-2013, 08:29 AM
Having a girl who doesn't like to be mounted is not protection against pregnancy, when they come into season the reluctance turns to lust and they will be mounted by anyone.

Two of my girls hated being mounted until their first season they then turned into tarts and would stand for any dog.

So don't rely on a reluctance now to stop a pregnancy.
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