2 dogs, one's had puppies, now fighting. help!

Hi, apologies for signing up and immediately asking for help, but I'm desperate and after any suggestions at all. It's a bit of a long story but I'll do my best to keep it relatively concise.

I have 2 bitches, both rescues. One is 7 and I've had for 6 years, the other is 2 and arrived approx 4 weeks ago. Both are collie Xs. The dog we've had ages was speyed as soon as we got her, the new dog was booked to be speyed, and then very unexpectedly gave birth to 8 puppies 2 weeks ago tomorrow. This came as a shock, as we'd had her checked over by the vet 36 hours previously, and they'd checked her over and not detected a big tummy full of tiny weeny puppies! Anyhoo, we seperated the dogs for a week, as the new dog was getting stressed by the presence of the old dog, and it was stopping her feeding the puppies. In hindsight, this might not have been the best option, but at the time we were just concerned about her successfully feeding the pups. 5 survived, and they're all thriving now, starting to stand and walk, although eyes not fully open yet.

Old dog came home yesterday, and they seemed ok with each other, old dog is definitely no threat to the pups, she's the softest natured dog I've ever know. We expected new dog to be protective and not let old dog anywhere near, but they're getting very aggressive. They had a few 'minor fights' which we let pass as they need to sort out who's in charge, and they're still relatively new to each other anyway (they got on ok before the puppies were born, after a day or two of initial scraps). They're now at a point where old dog has a nasty cut on her pad, and we've had to seperate them for the night.

If anyone has any suggestions of how to handle this would be very, very welcome. We have good homes for all the puppies sorted (planning to keep one ourselves), but obviously there's a few weeks of mothering to be done before they can go their seperate ways, and any hints/tips/suggestions would be very much appreciated. I don't really know where to start. Both dogs are submissive to me and my other half (and see me as alpha), but I don't really know if I should/how to go about seperating them. Ideally, I'd just pick them both up, knock their heads together and tell them I'm in charge and to pipe down, but it doesn't work like that!

help!

Hope that all makes sense.

Thanks

Tony

Only thing I can say is to leave them separated and let mom take care of her pups. No need to force anything on them right now.

Well, firstly you have only had number 2 about four weeks, in that time she has given birth, and now she is coping with a new home, being mom, and getting used to another dog.
All extremely stressful for her.
Even for those dogs (without puppies) that just come into the home and are having to get used to all the strangers and new things going on this is stressful, let alone a dog who has given birth 2 weeks ago and is trying hard to protect her puppies.

I hear what your saying that Number one dog is soft and will do no harm to them, but New Mom doesn't know that does she. She needs quality time with her babies and that unfortunately will not include the other dog.
She will be protective and yes she will fight to do that regardless. Thats what being a good Mom is all about.

The other dog will have to be kept away until she is ready to let (if she does) the Number 1 dog near them.

On the moments that they are together you will need to supervise, but it's early yet for her to be accepting another adult dog near her young.

Sorry but thats my advice, leave them apart until she is more settled and is willing to allow Number 1 dog in near them. Good luck.

Agree with Youngstevie. Give the young mum some space for a while. Definitely worth a try.

I would be getting on the the rescue and moaning for them selling/letting you take a dog that was pregnant. I'd be furious, to be honest.

Anyhoo, good luck - hope it all works out for you.

well done you for rescuing the two girls.....
at the moment they should be separated, that is, until the pups are grown, and personally, I wouldn't risk introducing them again til pups are well and truly weaned. Until then, the mum will be too protective, and may remain so up until they go, meaning any intros will have to wait til then.

I can envisage you may still have a problem with the reintroductions if there is a younger pup around.....in which case it may not be the most sensible option to keep one. The two older ones may need time to settle that just may not fit conveniently into the young pup's time frame for homing, let alone any training you may need to do with the older ones and of course the pup!
Good luck, keep us posted.

Hello and welcome, and well done for taking this girl on...

Firstly you have to remember 1) a lot has happened to her in a short space of time, new home , then puppies, she will be nervous and protective of her babies..

2) even the most experienced of breeders will not allow their other dogs near a bitch who has just whelped...her babies are still very young, and any dog (no matter how friendly) will be seen as a threat. she will defend them with her life if she had to..

You MUST keep your old girl away from the mum and pups... no matter how friendly she is.... the mum, does not know her well enough to give her any privileges with her babies.

You will need to keep this up till puppies are around 5 wks old, then you can try and allow the older bitch in near the pups...you will need to gage the mums reaction , if she is still uncomfortable.... remove her again... trying around 6 wks..... usually be this time the dam is beginning to be less protective and allow the pups more freedom..

But it is may be you have to keep her awau till the pups leave your home at 8wks of age...then you can start the introduction of the two dogs again...

It is also important to remember the same practice should be used for people coming into see the pups.... nobody other than your family (those that live with you) being around mum and her babies....... till they are around 4 wk of age...

The same principal will apply, mum will be stressed and protective of her babies..... she may even bite anyone she does not feel comfortable with.


When the mum (later on, ) feels comfortable with the older bitch, you can start introducing them to each other again....and hopefully no damage will have been done to their relationship.

Buy your self the "book of the bitch" it will help you to understand the rearing of these pups... and their mum.

Thanks all for so many very very helpful comments. I think we'll be shipping old dog back to my folks for a couple of weeks and then we'll try again when the pups are a bit bigger. Biggest bitch puppy has open eyes today! So exciting.

Pictures, can be found here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/toneton...7606084819906/

Lots and lots and lots of them!

I'm given hope by the fact that all day today, when both dogs have been in the garden, they've been happily sniffing and wagging without even a growl in sight, as long as we keep them seperate at night and keep old dog clear of the puppies they seem fine. Which must be good news.

Thanks again.

oh how sweet are they i take the pics of mum before the pups are on there as well and boy she does not look in whelp bless her she must of been all over the shot new homw now a mum really pleased they are doing well. def keep dog 1 away from the pups its only far on mum she needs to rest and look aftre them not worry in case the other dog is around. I think dog 1 going to your parents is a good idea if they can maybe leave there till the pups have gone to new homes and she is feeling a bit better just to help when you do bring dog 1 home again. good luck hun great pics and hope to see more.

I just want to say what a great job you're doing with all of them, it can't be easy as it was totally unexpected, and you're trying to do your best. I'm really hoping it all works out and the two older rescues get on fine together when things have settled down and the pups have gone. You're a real star, especially taking the trouble to ask for some help on here, even though you're already doing what you know is best. Good luck with all of it!

Hi Tony,

Have just seen the pics of the pups, you and your partner are doing great, as you have said it was all so totally unexpected.

Good luck and keep us posted