Trouble training - help

Hello,

I'm struggling to train my dog outside of the home (on walks and with other dogs around) because he doesn't react to treats or toys - he's just not interested.

I'm struggling to keep his excitableness down and it's off putting to other dogs as he is just too boystrous,

Anyone have any suggestions?

How old is he? I had a lot of problems with Cain when I first got him which was partly due to his age. He sounds young. A lot of dogs loose their attention span around adolescence.

Are the treats you using good enough? Try something amazing like baked heart, super stinky cheese or warm hot dog.

Try training him before his dinner so that he's hungry.

Try other motivating rewards than food or toys eg allowing him to go and play with other dogs, if that's what he's after. Break it up, ask a command, when he cooperates, let him play and be free for a while, then try again. Easier than trying to get him to concentrate for a whole training session in one go.

Try letting him have a really good run to "get it out of his system" before asking him to calm down enough to concentrate and train.

But mostly you just need to start with distractions really low. Do you have a garden? Start training out there. Try really quiet streets or empty parks. It's too much to expect a dog to go from a boring home and then perform as well in a buzzing dog filled park. Build up the distractions slowly and use lots of repetitions before making it harder.

Jean Donaldson does a 5/5 thing. Try the behaviour eg Sit five times. If the dog only gets it right once or twice, lower the criteria and make it easier. If it gets it right three or four times, do five more repetitions. If the dog gets it right all five times then you can make it a bit harder/add a new distraction.

Hth

Yup the outside can be just too interesting
I know you want to be working on your problems outside with other dogs - BUT you have to still start training the behaviour you want before there are the distractions
So if you want focus on you/heel/a sit when you ask
Then first you have to get the behaviour really solid and happy in the house
THEN in somewhere dull like the garden
then move on to outside - but somewhere with little distractions
then slowly move up to bigger distractions - then he should be enjoying working with you and be able to take treats and stuff

another thing you can do is shape focus
I had to do this with my girl Mia - again it involved making sure i was in a place that was boring enough that she could take treats
I let her zoom off and do her thing
then any time her zooming took her anywhere slightly in my direction I chucked her a treat - then sent her away to play again
In a pretty short time she was actually checking in with me
then I asked her to do something simple like sit before rewarding and sending her away to play
then in no time at all I had a dog that was bugging me to work with me - rather than focusing on everything else around her - and also she was waiting for me to reward her with being sent off to play rather than just going off and doing her own thing

He can sit, lie down, paw up and walk to heal but just not when another dog is around.

I tried all sorts of treats and before any food and he still isn't interested.

I don't feel confident in letting him off with other dogs because he is just to OTT and if the other dog reacts badly so does Max; so I tend to keep him on his lead at all times.

Dogs are very distracting.

It may be partly because he doesn't get to interact with other dogs and finds it frustrating, which is why he is so focused on them. Or if he reacts badly around other dogs, he may be a little fearful of them.

Try training around dogs at a distance he is comfortable with. Try when the other dog are a long way away and ideally on lead so they can't come running over. Pick a distance where he knows the dog is there but isn't so fixated that he goes deaf. Then slowly, over sessions, move him closer.

You didn't answer, is he young? If so you just need to persevere through the bounciness, keep training and setting him up to be successful and he will grow out of it

I will try that ; there is a local park with lots of dogs usually around - I'll see how we go.

He isn't a puppy anymore; he's 5. So he should be out of it.

What do you feed him? Bakers can do this....

He will only be 'out of it' once he has learned other ways.

What sort of diet is he on?
What amount/type of exercise does he get?
What type of training have you been doing with him?

I know its hard work and can be frustrating too, but I'm just asking as it might help us to come up with a bit of a plan/some ideas for you two

He is on a raw food diet. Just once a day and he doesn't always eat that (not straight away anyway - usually gone by bedtime).

I have tried all sorts of training, with a clicker, with treats, and toys but on a walk with dogs around he just isn't interested. In the garden he is a super. Also, tried group training which didn't work. I've spoke to a few trainers for one on one but they won't help (say I need to see a behaviourist but I can't afford there prices).

He gets about an hours walk everyday maybe more if I am not working. He is in the garden all day because that is where he prefers to be and is always running about with his beloved squeeky Christmas pudding (not even this persuades him on a walk when a dog is around).

I am sure someone with a bit more experience than me will be along soon but I have some experience with this so;
He snacks on his meal through the day?
If so it might be worth giving him so long to eat it, say 20 mins? then putting it in the fridge until his next feed. Hopefully if the outside world isn't too stressful for him then a little hunger may help him focus on a treat. What sort of treats do you use? I think liver cake is a good one, dried liver, stinky blue cheese...nothing less interesting than that outside to begin with would be my advice.

Do you always leave the garden and walk to somewhere and try to distract him as needed?
Would it be possible to use the clicker (click-treat in fast succession) just inside the garden for attention, then move to just outside the garden and try it there, before going anywhere busier? Would walking to the park at quieter times when there are less dogs around be possible?

If he is very bouncy and excited to go out to begin with then asking for attention at the busiest and most exciting times (from a dogs POV) is actually a really big ask. So if you can start clicking for attention when its quiet first, that might be a good start? Try just to use your chosen word (for attention) when there are NO dogs around, he needs to practice this for a while in other areas before using it when dogs are around, it'll come, but it'll take time.

Also, does he like toys? does he have a favourite apart from xmas pud, that you both play with? It doesn't always need to be treats as a reward. So when its quiet you can let him catch his toy after a click and so on... For this it might be worth having a brand new, never seen before special toy that only comes out to play when you are playing with it, then putting it away again when you are done (I.e. he isnt left alone with it)

At night, if you could maybe spare 15 mins a good game on the lead is to allow him to go ahead and whenever he looks at you, click-treat (remember REALLY special food), if you find he doesnt look at you, just stand still long enough and he will. Eventually, when you speak, he looks, you click-treat.

Basically you want to make yourself FUN, FUN, FUN

I know it all sounds a lot easier than it is in practice but I really think it will be worth it in the long run. When he plays with his Xmas pud, does he fling, kick, chase, kill, or just hold it and squeak?