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Location: Somewhere
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 18,088
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31-01-2013, 09:12 AM
# 196
#205
#215
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Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 49,483
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31-01-2013, 12:22 PM
'Let's discuss training methods'
to
'Let's discuss my training methods'
This is to reflect the fact that the original poster appears to be promoting a training method which has been banned in parts of the UK.
Thank you.
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Location: western NY, usa
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 143
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31-01-2013, 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by Brierley 
It was a question (about whether or not you think she would have obeyed the whistle without the shock) rather than a condemnation.
The point is, the dog couldn't have associated that shock with the first command (in this case the flush) as a reminder command had been given. She got the shock without any 'choice' of action on that command.
She had the choice on the flush, and she chose wrong.
The "reminder command" is always given with the correction, that is part of the conditioning process. She actually could have blown thru the shock (which was a low level nick), which she was perfectly capable of doing, because she had the pain threshold of a tree stump.
Brierley, I ask you again, if she had not understood the correction, would you not have expected a response quite different from the one I described re: the remainder of the hunt? And how would you have gotten her stopped?
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Location: burnley, Northwest
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 520
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31-01-2013, 01:56 PM
, again on this subject your not going to win and aslo make us believe these barbaric training aids are actually safe and have no lasting bad effect on a dog.
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Location: Lincolnshire
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,951
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31-01-2013, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by Firstlight
Oh Brierly, I didn't take your response as a comdemnation at all, sorry if you got that impression.
She had the choice on the flush, and she chose wrong.
The "reminder command" is always given with the correction, that is part of the conditioning process. She actually could have blown thru the shock (which was a low level nick), which she was perfectly capable of doing, because she had the pain threshold of a tree stump.
Brierley, I ask you again, if she had not understood the correction, would you not have expected a response quite different from the one I described re: the remainder of the hunt? And how would you have gotten her stopped?
The first 'command' (ie the flush) is really irrelevant in this scenario. Your dog decided against it - it happens. On the second command, you'll never know whether or not the shock or the whistle got the desired effect.
Never been gundog training or on a shoot mainly because I'm anti blood sports, so I can only tell you what I'd do if my dog had not heeded the first recall command. I'd have shouted a down in the case of my late collie because down was his default command - emergency brake if that makes sense.
Had that failed, I would have had the same options you would have had if your dog had ignored the collar and second command - pray and hope
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Location: western NY, usa
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 143
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31-01-2013, 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by Brierley
I don't see or get involved in many e-collar discussions these days. Going back a little I did and what I always found amusing was when there were two or three collar trainers on the threads. It was guaranteed that, before long, each were calling the other abusive in how they used the collar.
One, among many, very good cases for banning the tool is to get two or three users in the same place and let them do battle
If you are referring to the part of my post that mentioned abusive use of the collar, that was indeed my opinion. I don't believe I have called anybody anything. I don't know why you would think a disagreement among collar users would be a cause for banning them, I would consider it an opportunity to learn something, even if the something was what not to do.
People have disagreements all the time, as this thread has very clearly illustrated. The ARE's are of the opinion that no one should own animals at all; I think it is safe to say that everyone on this thread would disagree with that viewpoint. Disagreement should not rule out civil discourse, no?
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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
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31-01-2013, 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear
I find it eminently interesting that people choose to use electric collars in order to get their dogs to obey them purely for a sport and pot hunting; for nothing more than their own ego.
Yet those dogs on whom people rely to save lives etc eg:
Dogs which detect mines, explosives, firearms, drugs
Dogs which find bodies under avalanches or earthquakes
Dogs which detect cancer
Dogs which can alert their owners to an impending seizure, drop in blood sugar etc
Dogs which are used to assist the blind, deaf and physically handicapped
Dogs which are used to apprehend criminals
etc etc etc
can all be trained to do this (eminently much more difficult tasks) with just a clicker and some food.
Puts it all into perspective for me.
As Suzanne Clothier says,
Where knowledge ends, violence begins.
Wys
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Location: UK
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,551
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31-01-2013, 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by Firstlight
...
If no one can even agree to using the collar, why would you be surprised at the disagreement re: how to use them??
However, you tend to say that an ecollar is not always used "correctly" or "properly" or that it can be "misused". Whereas my point is that
I don't believe there is a "proper" way to use them, because no-one can agree, and everyone thinks their way is best if they use them - hence my comments.
....
After all, you are out to enjoy yourself, perhaps win something - nothing more. What is important to you that you "need" to use the shock collar on your dogs in this situation?
Does it boil down to believing that shock collars can save a dog's life? As that is the usual "reason" users tend to give.
Wys
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