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Kerryowner
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Location: Norwich UK
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11-05-2011, 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
I use all sorts of reinforcement depending on the dog, the context and the type of training I am doing.

Toys/play
food
body contact
verbal praise
freedom to scent

etc

There is a hierarchy of reinforcement, the dog tells you what that is, and if you are wise you choose wisely!

I do not believe that a dog can become too reliant on treats, any more than I can become too reliant on being paid for my labour!
I like that! I have had people say to me that Parker only comes back for a treat. So what! At least he comes back and I have sucessfully recalled him from a cat twice (when one suddenly appeared in the middle of the heath/ a park and he took off at full pelt after it being a typical terrier in that respect) and he got a "jackpot" of treats then! (I was very surprised he came back to be honest!). I usually reply to them that I would certainly not go to work every day if they did not pay me at the end of the month.

Parker would not be impressed if I used praise instead of a treat but he does like toys very much too.
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smokeybear
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11-05-2011, 08:21 PM
Originally Posted by Kerryowner View Post
I like that! I have had people say to me that Parker only comes back for a treat. So what! At least he comes back and I have sucessfully recalled him from a cat twice (when one suddenly appeared in the middle of the heath/ a park and he took off at full pelt after it being a typical terrier in that respect) and he got a "jackpot" of treats then! (I was very surprised he came back to be honest!). I usually reply to them that I would certainly not go to work every day if they did not pay me at the end of the month.

Parker would not be impressed if I used praise instead of a treat but he does like toys very much too.
If you want me to put the rubbish out at midnight in January you had better be offering me more than a Thank You!

Your dog comes back as he gets positive reinforcement for so doing AND the reward was of higher value than the cat.

Had you been offering a mere pat on the head, I venture to suggest that your dog may have ignored your recall!

That is the whole crux of dog training; make it easy for the dog to understand and provide SUFFICENT reward!

Simples!
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Tassle
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11-05-2011, 08:25 PM
Depends on the dog and the situation.

Siren will sometimes work for verbal or tactile prase, but only in a few situations. She will work for more work sometimes as well!! (usually in the case of herding!)

Tassle never use to be interested in food, but that has developed as she has aged. Verbal and tactile praise have never been high on her agenda.

Gabe loves interaction as does Trip,......although they would both prefer a toy over just about anything!

Zeff....the jury is out. Sometimes he will want food (occasionally) sometimes he will tug or chase a ball (very occasionally). Verbal and tactile praise is what he gets more (as it is the only thing I can use as a reward in many circumstances - where he will not take food or toys). They do not seem to mean much to him, but on the flip side....he does not like it when I am not there, so maybe the contact means more than I realise!
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Kerryowner
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11-05-2011, 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
If you want me to put the rubbish out at midnight in January you had better be offering me more than a Thank You!

Your dog comes back as he gets positive reinforcement for so doing AND the reward was of higher value than the cat.

Had you been offering a mere pat on the head, I venture to suggest that your dog may have ignored your recall!

That is the whole crux of dog training; make it easy for the dog to understand and provide SUFFICENT reward!

Simples!
That's a very good analogy! I guess some owners just want their ego stroked to think that their dog does what it's told without needing a reward.
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Tillymint
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11-05-2011, 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by Magpyex View Post
I love seeing that too, they look so happy!

Out of interest, has anyone found a difference between the sort of reward you give and whether or not you've had your dog from a puppy?

Tilly will do a double back flip somersault for a piece of cheese but not for a normal dog treat

Seriously though she is more enthusiastic for a high value treat but less calm.
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Kerryowner
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11-05-2011, 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by Tillymint View Post
Tilly will do a double back flip somersault for a piece of cheese but not for a normal dog treat

Seriously though she is more enthusiastic for a high value treat but less calm.
I remember walking Cherry round a park in Norwich once and she was doing so well with politely meeting dogs on-lead as I had small bits of meat for rewards. I was so proud of her when I thought what she used to be like (very reactive to other dogs). Then when the meat treats were all gone and all I had left was dog biscuits she decided she would rather head-butt the last dog we met before leaving the park! (don't worry, I did stop her as she was on-lead). The trouble with Cherry is when she is naughty she can be funny too as she is very clever and obviously thought it wasn't worth her while being nice for a mouldy old bit of biscuit!
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Magpyex
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11-05-2011, 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by Tillymint View Post
Tilly will do a double back flip somersault for a piece of cheese but not for a normal dog treat

Seriously though she is more enthusiastic for a high value treat but less calm.
The power of cheese knows no bounds
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GSD-Sue
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11-05-2011, 11:00 PM
My current two are different, my lad responds to treats & praise & a cuddle. My bitch tolerates physical contact but except for a scratch on one particular spot on her chest she doesn't seem to enjoy it. She will however work for treats. I had one bitch who I dare not praise when Iwas training as praise meant training is over for the day & she would do no more.
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Lovesgsds
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11-05-2011, 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by Kerryowner View Post
I remember walking Cherry round a park in Norwich once and she was doing so well with politely meeting dogs on-lead as I had small bits of meat for rewards. I was so proud of her when I thought what she used to be like (very reactive to other dogs). Then when the meat treats were all gone and all I had left was dog biscuits she decided she would rather head-butt the last dog we met before leaving the park! (don't worry, I did stop her as she was on-lead). The trouble with Cherry is when she is naughty she can be funny too as she is very clever and obviously thought it wasn't worth her while being nice for a mouldy old bit of biscuit!
That just really made me chuckle!! xx
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paulandfloyd
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12-05-2011, 12:05 AM
Using treats is like leading a donkey with a carrot, there’s not really any skill involved, and anyone can do it.

I only use treats until the dog fully understands the wanted command, then faze them out.

Praise
It’s important that you give any affection and praise sparingly- in other words not just for the sake of it, otherwise the dog knows he gets praise, just for doing nothing?

when the dog is off lead and walking away from you, don’t say anything, but when he starts to come back- on his own accord, praise him lots. Obviously if the dog walks to far ahead- deepen your voice and let him know he’s in the wrong. Your voice is a very affective training tool, soft voice for the good, deep voice/groans for the bad.

My dogs respond very well to this. Using praise sparingly is the key, voice tones also.

"Non-Predictability - Consistency should not be confused with predictability. A dog should never be able to predict its handler's commands so identical routines should not be followed every day. Different routes should be taken for exercise and training should be performed in varying sequences so that the dog has to await its owner's command rather than being able to predict the next move.

Insistence - Once the dog has been trained to give a certain response, correct performance must be insisted upon whenever the appropriate command is given. For example, if the dog has been commanded to "stay" and, after a few minutes, it wanders for a yard or two, then it must be taken back to the stay position and again commanded to stay. Even minor lapses of discipline will lead to an unreliable dog if allowed to remain uncorrected."
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