Brierly: Trainers definitely yes, not sure about the behaviourist as he/she came out during the week to see OH and the dogs - all of them together, not just Ben apparently.

Trainers did not charge, well, only drinks in the pub, but behaviourist yes.

Ben:

Gnasher, this behaviourist suggested you get an e-collar

How long did they work with you and Ben?
Did they try anything else before suggesting the collar?
Did they train you in how to use the collar?
Were they with you when you first used it?
What are there qualifications as a behaviourist?

This person worked with OH and the dogs together I believe, then Ben on his own.

Yes to the second, no-ish to the third I think
No to the fourth.

No idea to the fifth.

Moonstone: not when they come virtually free they don't!!

Please don't bleat about this blog not being fair, take it up with Admin. I received express permission, nay indeed even a recommendation that I start my own blog.

thank you for replying. It's unusual for farmers, gamekeepers and gun dog trainers to be predominantly reward based in their approach. The behaviourist obviously wasn't as he would definitely have not recommended an e-collar be used if he was. It's very unusual that a professional would recommend a training aid that delivers physical correction without insisting on showing how they work and how to progress the training particularly as you paid for his services.

No, I didn't specifically say the farmers and gamekeeper, sorry, I meant the trainers and bh. Most of the farmers are sheep farmers, and are all pro e-collar, including the guy who has trained Hal's son to be a gundog!

I really don't know the finer details now, but the behaviourist apparently is very into titbits and said he/she had never known dogs so obviously into their food, and yet prepared to so totally and easily ignore it when, for instance, another dog approached or they saw something interesting like a rabbit!

The farmer who now has one of Hal's sons is not a gundog trainer per se, but he has always trained his own labs to the gun. I thought it was extremely interesting that he had managed to train W. sufficiently well that he could take him on shoots - the only problem being that W. would 1) bring down pheasants out of the air as they flew up from the beaters and 2) he would raid the guns' piles of dead pheasants at lunchtime!! Hence the e-collar.

I hope I haven't missed anybody's question, sorry if I have.

Gosh, it's calmed down on here thank goodness, now certain people have hopefully left.

Must get back to work now

so two trainers, one behaviourist and a random number of others all giving advice in 8 months, Gnasher?

That's an awful lot of conflicting thoughts on how Ben should be trained in a very short time.

It's such a shame that your work schedule (and I'm not knocking you for this - been there, done that) didn't permit your attendance at the sessions undertaken by the trainers and behaviourist. It would have been interesting to hear, first hand, what approaches they took.

I really do hope that Ben continues to please in his training, but, and sorry there has to be a but, the breeders of Northern Breed dogs advise that they are not allowed off lead unless in a safe area not because they cannot be trained excellent recalls, but because they can be very headstrong and suddenly, after years of compliance to a recall command can simply 'bog off' and get themselves into hefty trouble in the process.

Training the initial recall is fairly easy in the scheme of things. Being certain that it will hold with this type of dog is another matter, hence the breeders advising the way they do.

When I was training, no matter what level of recall we had, I wasn't silly enough not to pass on the information given out be breeders. From there on in, of course, it was the owner's decision whether or not to heed the safety warning.

Please don't bleat about this blog not being fair, take it up with Admin. I received express permission, nay indeed even a recommendation that I start my own blog.
Gnasher

Thanks, well that makes me more than a little sad, that you have been encouraged by Admin.

Thankyou for answering
I guess there is little point speculating about this behaviourist
At the end of the day you were not there
I am concerened that you trusted your money and your dog to someone you never found out their qualifications
But at the end of the day it is too late
You are happy with the results, I am truly unhappy with the method and the reason for it working
Unfortunatly the only way we could ever agree here is for something to go very wrong, and I hope for the sake of your lovely boy this never happens

So I wish you all the best and I truly hope you never have to zap him again