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Patch
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16-06-2007, 01:39 PM
Originally Posted by Hewey View Post
Edited to add. Don't forget if you follow my policy of deducting costs your rescue would not be out of pocket only lacking in a bit of extra gain.
I dont run a rescue personally. My lifetime involvement within the rescue world is in many other ways, some hands on, some purely financial.

As for rescues following your policy, Hewey, with respect [ because its clearly not your area ], you just have`nt got a clue whats involved.
Read those links, actually read the details, then tell me you still dont get it...
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Hewey
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16-06-2007, 01:45 PM
Originally Posted by Patch View Post
If you had bothered to read the links you would have seen it is entirely relevent
Please Hewey, take the blinkers off.
All may be rosy in your world as far as being a breeder goes but there is a very big, bad, and extremely expensive other world - rescue - which you seem to be choosing not to see
I don't need to take any blinkers off to appreciate how expensive running a rescue can be. I know what it costs to keep dogs but that is entirely missing my point which is that I do not consider it ethical to take a price for the same dog twice except where it leaves you out of pocket and that this could prove an incentive to less reputable rescues that would actually be detrimental to dog welfare.
I will not labour the point though. If you still cannot appreciate or agree with what I am saying it is no matter :smt001 because at the end of the day reputable breeders and reputable rescues will carry on doing what they need to do to look after the welfare of their dogs regardless of the others view of how it should be done. There own experience will prevail :smt001
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Patch
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16-06-2007, 02:05 PM
Originally Posted by Hewey View Post
What are you suggesting? That we should accept people that we think are unsuitable because someone else will give them a dog.
No, I am stating [ not just suggesting ] that many breeders will and do sell to entirely unsuitable people / situations, far worse than those sadly not coming within sometimes unfortunately inflexible blanket rules of some rescues. It happens all the time. Not every breeder obviously but the unethical far outweigh the number of those who do things properly.
That is the whole main point of this thread, to consider ways to bring the lesser breeders up to scratch, if following some of the policies used by the better and highly experienced rescues should be a minimum standard under which breeders be allowed to operate...


I will always attempt to explain to people why I think their particular lifestyle is not suitable at this point in time, and I think some people do listen, but as you know some people will never accept this and will go elsewhere, which is why I believe we will always have irresponsible breeders and puppy farmers unfortunately but I do not feel me letting them have one of mine is the answer!
Thats why we are debating on this thread to consider what might be feasible answers
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Patch
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16-06-2007, 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by Hewey View Post
I don't need to take any blinkers off to appreciate how expensive running a rescue can be. I know what it costs to keep dogs but that is entirely missing my point which is that I do not consider it ethical to take a price for the same dog twice except where it leaves you out of pocket and that this could prove an incentive to less reputable rescues that would actually be detrimental to dog welfare.
I will not labour the point though. If you still cannot appreciate or agree with what I am saying it is no matter :smt001 because at the end of the day reputable breeders and reputable rescues will carry on doing what they need to do to look after the welfare of their dogs regardless of the others view of how it should be done. There own experience will prevail :smt001


Well, you cant say I didnt try to help you understand Hewey.
Clearly my ability to get things across is severely lacking in this case, for which I accept my failing
Hopefully someone else will be able to explain it better for you.
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16-06-2007, 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
Anne, are you saying (sorry I haven't read through the whole thread) that people should not breed at all? Or that breeders should be made to carry out homechecks etc?

Whilst I think homechecks can be useful, I don't see they are totally beneficial. I would imagine meeting the whole family and talking to them about past dogs/expectatiosns/training classes they have lined up/vets they have lined up would be more useful. I also don't think a set interview is beneficial as it can be too rigid.

I am glad I was being a numpty about pedigree and purebreeds, but i do think when talking about dogs in rescue it is vital that we are accurate. It is one thing to say there are a lot of purebreeds but another to say there are mainly pedigrees I for one would really like to see some stats (not just from you Anne) that show the percentages across the country. I suspect the vast majority of dogs in recue are from byb, reputable breeders are just that...reputable...because they do checks and follow ups.

Just for the record, my opinion is that breeders should be licenced and any pups put on a national register so they are traceable...a bit like car registrations (except with microchips)if the dog changes hands it has to be re registered..if a dog is found without a chip...massive fines etc...9sorry slightly off topic but thought it was important on a thread like this to establish where I am coming from).



I did mention this in an earlyer post, I have also said this in other threads, it would be great to have some sort of breeders chip, That way I could be more relaxed and know should any of mine end up in rescue I would be the first to know, I would hate for any of my doggeys to end up in kennels, if they kept a registar of how many dogs came in form this breeder or that, they could hand out warnings should any one breeder hit a certain number then if they continued they could be fined, I understand some folk may just be unlucky, but if they took the dog out of the rescue great, if not then they could help with costs, rehoming and so on, its so difficult to say who is unlucky and who does not give a damn though, but it would be a start eh.,
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AnneUK
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16-06-2007, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by Hewey View Post
A couple of question for you, AnneUK :smt001 What do you do to counter the rescues that are really just dog dealers, buying in stock and selling on?.
To be honest with you not very much compared to what some of the other rescues are doing, however we will act on those we hear about, informing other rescues and the authorities where possible and continually try to educate the general public.
Originally Posted by Hewey View Post
Secondly, do you give people their "donation" back if the adoption fails for whatever reason?
I think the problem with offering to refund is it gives people the wrong impression, I don't want potential adopters thinking; we can see how it goes if it doesn't work out after all we can get our money back! Adopting a dog should be seen as a long term commitment no matter what. They're not goods to be bought and refunded. So as a general rule no, although having said that in ten years we've only had one return, so it's not something we come across very often
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AnneUK
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16-06-2007, 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
Anne, are you saying (sorry I haven't read through the whole thread) that people should not breed at all? Or that breeders should be made to carry out homechecks etc?
Don't worry it's a long thread What I'm trying to say is that reputable breeders should consider carrying out the same checks as reputable rescues. If it helps prevent one of their dogs ending up in rescue then surely it's worthwhile.



Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
Just for the record, my opinion is that breeders should be licenced and any pups put on a national register so they are traceable...a bit like car registrations (except with microchips)if the dog changes hands it has to be re registered..if a dog is found without a chip...massive fines etc...9sorry slightly off topic but thought it was important on a thread like this to establish where I am coming from).
Totally agree with that :smt001
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AnneUK
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16-06-2007, 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by suze View Post
it has been said that most dogs are sent to rescue centres because the owner cannot handle them, they are unruley, too hyper etc

this problem could become less of a big factor if breeders carry out checks into the family that they go into - the same as rescue centres

i also think (slightly off topic) to make this problem less, all people who intend to breed from a bitch should be licensed - people who have to be licensed should be more willing to make sure their pups go to good homes, chekc the homes out etc so these problems should become less
Completely agree with you :smt001
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Shona
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16-06-2007, 06:33 PM
[COLOR="Blue"]thought it would be intresting to have a look at a few rescue sites to compare the types of dog they have for rehoming,

the three I looked at were the first three on the list so I have not scanned and omitted the rescues which had more mongrels or peds,
they are SSPCA SCOTLAND DOG SEARCH, BANDEATH STIRLING AND DUN & GALOWAY RESCUES,


1 x Dob
1x retriever
1 x greyhound
1 x Jrt
2 x GSD's
2 x staffie
6 x collie {but definition of collie may be a bit open,,,,,
36 x mongrels

so it seems to be a bigger % in scotland are not pure breed or ped, that said its only a quick look at three rescues,

/COLOR]
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AnneUK
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16-06-2007, 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Hewey View Post
Some of the responsibility must lie with whoever assessed that they could cope.
Totally agree :smt001
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