so if a rescue comes from a ‘breeder’ coz the dog has still been ‘bred’ to be born, then why don’t strays?? Where do they come from them? I do not see your logic in that at all.

I also love how you assume that it was a male who ‘bred’ jake.

im sorry but accidents happen, that’s life and as much as I hate it, some people do have accidental litters through being irresponsible or lacking appropriate knowledge etc. at the end of the day, whether people get a pup from a breeder or a rescue, that is a home that could have gone to an older rescue. A pup suited my family more than an older dog coz of the kids (and that was on the SSPCA staffs advice), but I wanted to rescue so I got a rescue pup. I will not be made to feel bad for not getting an older rescue. Also, to get slightly technical, the dogs and pups have separate areas (at least that was how it was where I got jake) so room wouldn’t really come into it coz the pups wouldn’t be taking the space an older dog could have had… a home maybe, but not a kennel at the rescue.

Also, I don’t try to make people feel guilty for not getting a rescue, but I am proud of the fact that I rescued. If those who buy from breeders feel guilty, then that to me means they don’t feel totally comfortable with getting from a breeder… I know I wouldn’t, and I just could never get a dog from a breeder, coz I would feel guilty.

Had another thought. If you class everyone a "breeder" whose bitch produces pups no matter if pure bred, crossbred or mongrel & give them the "status" of being called a breeder, is this not encouraging & supporting those who do breed deliberate crosses by telling them its all right because theyre a breeder?

I think the term "breeder" is appropriate for anyone who produces a litter... the bit I highlighted is what "we" (I agree) would call a responsible breeder, but as you know they are not the only type, you have the one off pet breeder, the hobby breeder the byb , ALL breeder but with subtle differences.

How can you stop it, there's the million dollar question



Sorry Lozzi, the logic is simple, the stray has to have come from somewhere dont they.. unless as I stated earlier, they are street dogs dogs that have been street dogs for generations (as in parts of europe) ..but even then somewhere down that chain, someone would have bred a litter. All dogs in rescue will have come from a breeder either first , second , or fifth hand... they are the products of someone breeding litters of puppies.


All dogs in rescue have gotten there through A.B.C?? but ALL those dogs will have been bred by a breeder (responsible or not) before they 1) where sold, then dumped in rescue 2) born in rescue from a pregnant bitch that had been handed in or found,




No, I don't think it gives them status ,education is what gives status to a good breeder, or lack of it for a bad one.

For me, a breeder is quiet black and white, its someone who owns a bitch and produces a litter be it 1 or 5 from that bitch.... the status of that breeder is a whole other thread!!

What of the owner of the Male dog in the equation. It takes two to tango. Would the owner of the male dog not then also be considered a breeder?

I the 'guilt' is in buying from the wrong sort of breeder - if all puppy buyers did their homework and ONLY bought form ethical breeders who undertook to take back any dog they had bred then there would be very little need for rescue centres at all - in fact the only truly responsible way of getting a dog is to go via the breed clubs - visit breeders from their recommended list and then be prepared to wait for your pup - buying from a breeder does NOT add to the number of dogs in shelters - buying irresponsibly does !

the dogs in rescue come from irresponsible feckless unethical and uncaring breeders - everytime folk buy a pup from them ( because they want one NOW, because they are cheaper, because they have loads of different breeds to choose from, because they are convenient etc etc ) you encourage them to breed more and the fall out ends up in shelters up and down the land

the power for change comes from the puppy/dog buying public - choosing the right kind of breeder is the best and most effective way of solving the rescue dog problem - getting a dog from rescue does nothing to solve the underlying problem it simply leaves room for another - buy ethically and just watch those numbers fall !!

I think people who would feel guilt are those who got a dog from a responsible breeder, they could instead be going to the shelter and getting a dog from there. So buying one from a breeder stops another one from finding a home that is in a shelter with no where to go and some on death row. Hope that makes sense.
I get what you are saying about buying from resp breeders in the first place would reduce the numbers in shelters, but it does not stop the dogs being bought by people who say and do all the right things and are willing to spend the extra money to buy from them. But in a year or two's time that dog could end up in a shelter because they decide to have children, there is no guarantee the dog will go back to the breeder even if a contract is signed for that to be done.

Dogs in shelters are there for so many reasons, what if the breeders circumstances changed and can no longer have them back? What about the ones who's owners died? Not all dogs in shelters are from bad breeders.

[QUOTE=bijou;1928531 the power for change comes from the puppy/dog buying public - choosing the right kind of breeder is the best and most effective way of solving the rescue dog problem - getting a dog from rescue does nothing to solve the underlying problem it simply leaves room for another - buy ethically and just watch those numbers fall !![/QUOTE]

I agree buy ethically, but the pups of those unethical breeders (the ones around here are too lazy and don't want to spend money to get their dog neutered or spayed ) the litter is still going to exist, so many dogs around here are given away for free for the bracketed reason. It would not stop the dogs owner ignoring the fact their dog needs to be spayed or neutered to stop the problem, the pups would end up in the pound or shelters. It is a vicious cycle unfortunately
One dog I know of had a litter of 14pups, they were all given away, now there are 15 dogs out there capable of breeding. Yes I did say something to the people who could do something, did anything happen..........no

The people getting dogs from shelters are doing nothing
wrong by getting these dogs, I have no intention of breeding (OH does) and would go for a rescue because I feel these dogs exist and I want to take one of the unwanted because I feel the responsibly bred puppies will find a home the shelter ones aren't always so lucky

If these dogs were from responsible breeders they could go through their breed club to find a foster or new home. In my breed there were two dogs in rescue last year, the breeders circumstances prevented them from taking them back. As we have a breed rescue, the dogs went straight into foster (with my dog's breeder) until suitable homes could be found. They weren't taking up kennel space and funds from rescues. Our breed club raises money to feed and house such dogs, as all breed clubs do. I am on the list of volunteers to foster Estrelas that come into rescue. I hope one day to have the facilities to take on a permanenet rescue dog, but at the moment I only have physical space for another 2 or 3 large dogs and wouldn't give the space for a dog that couldn't be shown.

I suppose that makes me a bad person.

Sorry Emm, I don't feel guilty one little bit for buying from a breeder.

I take in a dog to suit my lifestyle and , for that it means buying a well bred pup from a breeder.

I am not responsible for all the dogs that end up in rescue.

I don't think people are bad for not wanting dogs that are not show quality. As long as the dogs they have are wanted and if not find them suitable homes, just as the breeder would.
That being said I don't show so I don't fully understand, but that only makes us different not bad or good right or wrong. The only way that would make it good/bad, right/wrong is if you didn't care what happened to the dog because it didn't meet your standards and end up in a shelter for that reason.